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European logging anyone?

Started by pinefeller, February 11, 2018, 05:59:00 PM

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teakwood

National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

pinefeller

Tigercat DWC602 preview - YouTube
called the tigercat salesman in maine and they are getting me a price on this guy......maybe just end up being a pipe dream. but at least I'll all have something to shoot for. a few years back i priced a 548g3 they wanted 185k. of course theres probably at least a 50k markup for the deere stickers lol
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

mike_belben

Well how else can they afford to keep up the board of directors' standard of living?  Cmon. 
Praise The Lord

Southside

Deere even charges it's dealers a monthly fee to display the Deere logo on their service trucks.  If I remember correctly it's in the range of $300 / month / truck.  Sometime look at their trucks closely, all the equipment you see photos of on the truck does not actually have the Deere logo on it, because that would cost another fee - absolutely insane.  My 490 is the only Deere I will ever own.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Skeans1

I'll have to ask a good friend about that next week when he's out to service the 1270. Having said that and talking to a local guy that denied a Deere Buncher vs his tigercat the warranty on the Deere is longer and the price was less the issue was his operators.

Satamax

Quote from: pinefeller on April 26, 2018, 09:55:10 AM
Tigercat DWC602 preview - YouTube
called the tigercat salesman in maine and they are getting me a price on this guy......maybe just end up being a pipe dream. but at least I'll all have something to shoot for. a few years back i priced a 548g3 they wanted 185k. of course theres probably at least a 50k markup for the deere stickers lol
That's funny. 
Foretmat, where the video has been filmed; that's a neighbor to me, compared to all of you guys. Less than 100 miles in the summer. when the Galibier's pass is open. May be less than 70 in a straight line. 
The cars on the car park felt very french. You don't know those little peugeot, renault and citroen muck! 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

pinefeller

when i told the dealer in maine what i wanted, at first he seemed puzzled because that configuration doesnt exist over here. but after some discussion i think i sold him on why it would be ideal for me and he said as long as they make it somewhere, we could probably get one in America. still waiting to hear back. we should start taking bets on price. im positive this will be the future of logging where ctl isnt feasible.
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

thecfarm

Not that it matters,Is that the dealer in Madison?
I just about drive the car off the road looking at the stuff.  
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

pinefeller

why yes it is, Frank Martin and sons.
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

mike_belben

Im holding out for a euro style dual drum skidder with a real front-end loader on it.  When that happens, ill go buy one in my wifes name. 
Praise The Lord

OH logger

Quote from: mike_belben on April 27, 2018, 04:45:55 PM
Im holding out for a euro style dual drum skidder with a real front-end loader on it.  When that happens, ill go buy one in my wifes name.

you mean your soon to be ex wifes name? ;D
john

mike_belben

Well i figure its been too long to try getting it in my last ex wifes name!
Praise The Lord

Riwaka

The areas in Maine that cannot be 'cut to length', have you seen the slopes that are cut to length in Europe and British Columbia? (with traction assist like t-winch, haas etc
Haas skidder - double winch reaming 170 hp from the JD 4.5 liter 4 cylinder (in the translation evolution of TJ 240)  http://www.haas-maschinenbau.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Haas/umbauten/Timberhawk/Brochure_Timberhawk_ENG.pdf
Highlander  HIGHLANDER - KONRAD Forsttechnik   (harvesting clambunk)

I wonder if some sensitive areas would be suitable for the french canadian   Teleforest (or similar koller etc) remote cable system (two aged excavators and remote grapple on powered carriage) Manufacturer of cable yarding system | Teleforest  (probably possible to turn it into a one excavator system etc with a tree or stump tail hold /anchor etc or summit swing yarder instead)

Teleforest remote grapple carriage
Teleforest : the safest and easiest system for cable yarding operations on steep slopes - YouTube

If you get the quote on the french tc 602 with double winch and crane grapple with the Fiat engine you might do a cost comparison with the oregonian peterson caterpillar tsk dozer  with an ugly tier 4 dpf bonnet bulge  - 202hp of cat power
TSK | Peterson CAT

Skeans1

If it was me I wouldn't compare the price of the Peterson 527 they have an out of this world price them, but Cat has started to build them new again with a swinging grapple. Just wondering how the 527 that's 50k is even in the same league to compare against vs the 602 that's 30k?

mike_belben

That teleforest setup looks pretty brilliant.  Its like a flying gantry that never runs out of track.
Praise The Lord

lopet

Is that thing self propelled ?  Looks like it only works down hill, or how would it get enough traction on that main line to climb ?
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Skeans1

They use the grapple carriages both in up hill and down hill, you need a main as well as a haul back line then a line for open/close on the old setups. The bad part is the swing yarders aren't exactly small or light with most having to have the mast removed for transport on a lowboy.

mike_belben

Theres an engine and hydraulic system in the carriage with remote control.
Praise The Lord

Riwaka

Teleforest - how much would the pulleys shorten the rope life by bending the rope like that?
possibly more productive with the rope chokers than a grapple. Would like to see the set up times on a double drum yoader (strawline to pull out wire)to a tail hold.
Teleforest intro vid 
Teleforest english video - YouTube

Koller 602 - pulling wire for remote control yarder
Koller K602 Hänger mit MSK 10 LQ - YouTube

D6T - winching logs Australia - heavy dozers probably make too much mess for most places now.Someone would be narking to the enviromental agencies.
Davis's Cat D6T Dozer snigging logs - YouTube

2017 D6T with more power (no dpf bonnet bulge vs tsk), new lock up torque converter trans - for supposed fuel saving - more compact machine, no flat tires vs rubber tire skidder etc (a used dozer with logging conversion potential after the earth movers/ road construction etc have done all the product part upgrades and general debugging and a substantial depreciation) 
D6T (2017 version)
[VIDEO] D6T Tractor Dozer’s increased horsepower and weight boosts productivity - YouTube

lopet

Would be interesting to know how the drive system works on that carriage. Must be pretty slick.
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

pinefeller

well, talked to tigercat today.... sorry we dont do these remote control dual winch forestry crane skidders in America. >:( this is a conspiracy.  so the rest of the modern world get awesome user-friendly machines and the greatest superpower, (allegedly)in the world we get... uhh- a 948g3  ie- a bigger hammer . only the wealthiest biggest logging company's can finance and are too big to ever be useful for any meaningful forestry work or even be remotely affordable for a small logging outfit even after they have completely depreciated. Awesome >:( >:( >:( what a waste of time getting a degree in forestry. Ignorance is bliss. 

deep breaths.........

 
for those who say "it cannot be done!" please do so quietly so as not to disturb those who are doing it.

Jeff

I'm moving this topic back to Forestry and logging.  It was removed because some of you guys decided to break Forestry Forum rules about political comments.  I've edited that out and I am warning you knock it off.  The other warning is, be very careful on sending my admins notes that say remove me and crap like that because boohoo you moved my topic.  It ain't your topic. It belongs to the Forestry Forum. Be careful what you ask for. You might get it.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Skeans1

Quote from: pinefeller on April 30, 2018, 04:13:04 PM
well, talked to tigercat today.... sorry we dont do these remote control dual winch forestry crane skidders in America. >:( this is a conspiracy.  so the rest of the modern world get awesome user-friendly machines and the greatest superpower, (allegedly)in the world we get... uhh- a 948g3  ie- a bigger hammer . only the wealthiest biggest logging company's can finance and are too big to ever be useful for any meaningful forestry work or even be remotely affordable for a small logging outfit even after they have completely depreciated. Awesome >:( >:( >:( what a waste of time getting a degree in forestry. Ignorance is bliss.

deep breaths.........


The USA had that style of skidder for a while a 518 swinging grapple with a winch, I can only think of a hand full that were made because they didn't sell. The reason you only see a big machine is price take a 602 now price our small machine for the American market a 610 I'd bet money that 610 is cheaper in the long run to run heck it might even be cheaper off the lot then a 602 like you want. You guys think a swinging grapple setup is so user friendly how many have ever seen or ran one? Out here is where most were sold and used you don't see one at all anymore it'll tear a rubber tired skidder a part in a hurry if you want grapples you want a single or double acting setup. Also a heads up Young still makes a swinging grapple with a winch under it for PNW specs most of these were put on 525 or 648 sized skidders but I haven't seen one out here done in years.

DPrest

Quote from: pinefeller on April 30, 2018, 04:13:04 PM
well, talked to tigercat today.... sorry we dont do these remote control dual winch forestry crane skidders in America. >:( this is a conspiracy.  so the rest of the modern world get awesome user-friendly machines and the greatest superpower, (allegedly)in the world we get... uhh- a 948g3  ie- a bigger hammer . only the wealthiest biggest logging company's can finance and are too big to ever be useful for any meaningful forestry work or even be remotely affordable for a small logging outfit even after they have completely depreciated. Awesome >:( >:( >:( what a waste of time getting a degree in forestry. Ignorance is bliss.

deep breaths.........


I feel your frustrations pinefaller. While I expect that this setup would be too rich for my blood, I can see the conditions where it would be ideal in high value forests. 
Trees keep me sane.

Riwaka

Matriarch Equipment   Skogger ,  - skid, load, sort, fell (with add on head)
weight around the 22k lbs - bit under done at 100 hp?
What are the necessary upgrades (extra expense)? More power/torque, winch (to get the logs beyond grapple reach), chains or band tracks on at least engine side tires?, add on/ removeable ballast for engine side depending on what tree types are being hauled, loud extremely annoying beeper on machine (ground worker alert)

Matriarch Equipment - SKOGGER up-slope extraction of pine tree lengths for roadside processing - YouTube

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