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Author Topic: 3pt Logging Winch Build  (Read 3765 times)

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Offline mike_belben

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2018, 02:10:17 AM »
All things in proportion.  A hydrostatic system sized for his engine output and chassis weight would work very well.  Just like, well, like skidsteers and lawnmowers work very well.  If there was something better than hydrostatic it'd have achieved dominance by now.

 If you look at torque vs volume curves for hydrostatics youll see that the slower you demand fluid (low swash plate tilt) the more torque they produce.  So yes, with a wack of logs its a slow winch, as it should be, when reeling in an empty cable its a fast winch.  

Load on the engine is relative to how fast you demand the flow.  So its up to the operator whether the motor is being lugged down and puffing black smoke or just running steady.  You are the governor. 


I agree the braden isnt ideal but itll give him the capability to go pull some wood.  Thats a big first step, and may be sufficient for him.  

Revelation 3:20

Offline GigaRift

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2018, 05:01:48 AM »
All things considered, I understand that this thing is not going to be winning any races or a power monster, but Im pretty sure I can make it achieve a happy medium for my personal use. If my tractor cant run this winch at its maximum, then its going to give the winch a longer life. Also for the price this will be the cheapest office. A hydraulic winch is $1500, a continuous duty electric winch is well of $1000 and both of this need a better system to run. I bought 2 of these Bradens for $260.

Offline Satamax

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2018, 11:16:37 AM »
Well, since the ahgu5 is prety much the same as yours. It would be sensible to find which two speed hydraulic motor they use. 

If you want more power than your Pto. 

You could fit a directly driven hydraulic pump on the crankshaft.  You Can have nearly all the power of the engine. 

And as Mike was saying, a variable flow swashplate pump could help greatly,  going over the engine power capabilities, to have a big flow at no load. The only thing to remember, lower the flow when engine stalls. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb.

Offline Puffergas

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2018, 01:15:59 PM »
If I were to build a 3pts hitch winch I would go capstan. 540rpm pto chained to a shaft with the drum. Just make sure every thing is guarded so that the rope doesn't get into the turning shafts etc..
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, IHC 300 Utility, Timberjack 225D, Burg Bandsaw mill, Steiger Bearcat II

Offline Satamax

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #44 on: May 31, 2018, 02:15:53 AM »
So GigaRift, did you make a decision?  You know where you're heading? 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb.

Offline 711ac

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #45 on: May 31, 2018, 09:24:57 PM »
I would think that 8000# of pulling power would be all you wanted for your Kub. and do all you'll be asking of it. I was in the same situation (building a tractor winch) and the slow speed of a truck pto winch, and the lack of reverse forced my wallet open for a Ramsey planetary hyd winch. I always wondered how fast you could safely spin the input on the worm gear over typical truck pto speed's. (that I also don't know) :D. Mike might know or a little interweb surfing might get you the suggested rpm range on those Braden's. If I were to build I'd drive the winch through a small manual transmission for pulling speed options and reverse.

Offline GigaRift

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2018, 09:30:01 AM »
I think im going to go with direct drive pto to start but planning on trying a few gear ratio and maybe later add a gear box of some sort. I have an old dirtbike engine, gearbox combo that i may try to add for speeds and maybe a belt drive speed system. But i just want to get it working in a crude manner and then tune it to my needs.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2018, 10:02:34 AM »
What about a PTO powered hydraulic pump to run the winch? No need to use the tractor hydraulics and then you can size it to your needs.
I knew what I thought I meant.

Offline GigaRift

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2018, 09:40:18 PM »
I have thought about that, but its far from a costly option, but at some point it might be the option to go with.

Offline Satamax

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2018, 10:57:08 PM »
Giga, a dirtbike gearbox will never cope with the torque. 

Best bet, would be an old manual with overdrive, from a car of 100hp at least. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb.

Offline pineywoods

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #50 on: June 02, 2018, 09:06:13 AM »
Mine's an old pto drive braden, drive it with chain drive to a hydraulic motor. Motor runs off the tractor hydraulics, reversable. Power in, power out, and freespool. Works good for me.. Go to Banjo pickers gallery and look at the home-made job he built...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
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Offline GigaRift

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #51 on: June 12, 2018, 04:11:55 PM »
So I started fabing up the winch this weekend past. Will post some pictures in a few days. I was wondering about ordering a pto shaft with a slip clutch if it would be able to protect the tractor if I was to hit a stump or rock. I could get one that only has a shear bolt, but for the little extra I could get the slip clutch and have the protection. 

I think it would help but unsure has I have never had a pto implement.

Thanks, Nathan.

Offline GigaRift

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #52 on: June 12, 2018, 07:34:53 PM »
Ok after some thinking and considering the thoughts of people here on the forum, i think i'm going to go with hydraulic. I know my tractor will be slow with the hydraulic motor. But the safety aspect, keeps me thinking. Everyone seems to think that 8000lb is enough for my tractor and after using my 3500lb electric to haul some wood this past week, i think 8000lb is more than enough. I am in the woods by myself so safety of me and the equipment is number one. Only using this for my own use and not trying to make any money using it.

So after running some number from a site i found about hydraulic motors on a motor i found available to me. I think i may be able to run around 6400lb at 33ft/min. Which if those number are somewhat correct, im find with. Could someone with a little more hydraulic knowledge correct me if im wrong. Ill post the motor and website used for calculations below.

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/2-2-cu-in-4-bolt-hydraulic-spool-valve-geroler-motor/A-p8489957e

Hydraulic Motor Calculations - Womack Machine Supply Company

Okay, i dont know a big lot about hydraulics so, i could be very wrong with all of this. My tractors hydraulics are 5.15gpm @ 2205psi. So the motor above is only rated for 2030psi. So is this motor unuseable? 
If so would this one work: https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/6-2-cu-in-2-bolt-hydraulic-spool-valve-geroler-motor/A-p8490351e


Another question about hydraulics, if i did want to get more flow from my tractor could i run a hydraulic pump from a engine accessory belt and plumb into the current hydraulic system for increased flow?

Sorry for the long post, maybe none of this make any sense. Thanks, Nathan.

Offline Satamax

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2018, 09:51:26 PM »
Gigarift, a daft idea which popped in my little brain. Why not get another engine, a bit more powerful, and attach that to the winch. Then, you can run the winch at the proper speed. Go hydraulics if you want. Whatever you feel like. A  1000CC should be plenty, or even less. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #54 on: June 13, 2018, 12:13:22 AM »
I skid these oaks with a 300cc quad and a warn 1700lb winch on 1/4" cable.  That is an 11ft gate for scale. 








This is a 17hp kubota L175 2wd with no loader or weights.. Just chained to 3pt.  Oak tops.




This is a 2wd open diff deere 140 with 2 pine logs.. A 10' and a 12' i think. Harbor freight 2500lb dc winch.





8k smittybilt winch with 2 small maple trees, approx 30ft long



My point is dont get too worried about perfection, get something together cheap and try it out, have fun and rework as needed.  V2.0 is always better anyways.  If you cant drag it with a chain off the drawbar, there isnt much point winching it to the tractor. Raising the log butt high off the ground is the most important component.  
Revelation 3:20

Offline GigaRift

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #55 on: June 13, 2018, 05:00:45 AM »
Thanks mike for the perception of size and power. I think you are right in getting it to work and then tune to the situation.

Offline Hilltop366

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #56 on: June 13, 2018, 09:55:40 AM »
Interesting thread,

Take a look at the product sheet for these smaller winches to give you an idea about ratios, line speed and power requirements.

Igland Info


I have the 390, this thing will break off a 8" spruce tree and has no trouble hauling in a couple of 20" spruce trees. When winching I usually run my 35 hp tractor just a bit above idle which gives me  a pto speed around 300rpm so the line is almost half of the rated speed and power. At that speed things a happening quick enough for me. I did add a top pulley to my winch, that makes things a lot easier winching in a log as it lifts up on the log as you are pulling but you have to be aware of the extra forces at the top of the winch when things fetch up! 

 





 

Offline mike_belben

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Re: 3pt Logging Winch Build
« Reply #57 on: June 14, 2018, 07:22:20 AM »
Thanks mike for the perception of size and power. I think you are right in getting it to work and then tune to the situation.
It would probably me more useful to mention the level of strain each load put on each machine.  The quad is at 60-80% capacity on most of those stems, the green tractor at 100% and kubota around 70 ish in hilly terrain or 60 in flats.  Bobcat was at 40.  


To throw a further wrench into your spokes here.. Is what a difference a set of wheels can make.  I dont think the quad could do any two of the bigger pieces here simultaneously except maybe downhill which is always followed by uphill unfortunately.  

This is that whole pile cut up onto a trailer, and the quad can now drag it through gulleys and over dirtpiles.  On flat ground that whole pile went from impossible to a 20% load and id be wasting fuel to make a trip to the woodpile without loading up more.


On a trailer, a little tired old gutless air cooled quad can move a rick at a time.

If youre hauling firewood and the skids are long,  plan your winch out with a trailer and cable boom in mind. A deadheader with tongs is my next step.
Revelation 3:20


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