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Author Topic: WM - "Max" log length.....?  (Read 3265 times)

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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2018, 07:09:32 PM »
4X4,

   When I turn 126 y/o like you I won't cut 20' lumber either. :D
Howard Green
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2018, 07:37:40 PM »
I've had several inquiries about the longest lumber/beam my saw will cut.  I know the specs say 21', but I tell customers 20' is max.  I've only milled up to 16' to date.  I'm inclined to add a handling charge for 16' plus because it is more labor intensive.
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2018, 08:34:25 PM »
Ted,

   I know some sawyers add an extra fee for real long, real big or short logs but I'd try to keep the billing system as simple as you can unless it is a significant amount involved. if they just want one log out of the whack cut long for a header I would probably not charge extra. Same as I do for short log, where I bill by the hour, but if they just have 1 or 2 I just bill same as the others.

   If they are just bringing you one long log or all are long, I agree a higher rate would be appropriate since you can't make it up elsewhere. JMHO.
Howard Green
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Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2018, 03:50:44 AM »
The real question is... so what if the logs are 20' 8" long. 

Does the customer really need 20' 8" long boards? If not, cut the sucker in 2 and save both of you a ton of work. You'll get more boards to boot.

It's kind of like having 42' logs but needing a bunch of 2" x 4" x 8'. No sane person would cut 40' and trim them later...
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2018, 11:02:58 AM »
I don't custom saw over 16'.  Some people have a good reason for 16's, and the board footage adds up pretty fast, so its good money, but most just want it because its more convenient to them. With a dragback, 16's are not too bad, but definitely not fun.

I've even had people who want longer cuts call me out on it and say they know my mill will cut longer and I tell them maybe it can - but I can't, and send them down the road to a buddy who has an LT-15 and is hungrier than I.   ;D
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2018, 09:15:44 PM »
Ted,

   I know some sawyers add an extra fee for real long, real big or short logs but I'd try to keep the billing system as simple as you can unless it is a significant amount involved. if they just want one log out of the whack cut long for a header I would probably not charge extra. Same as I do for short log, where I bill by the hour, but if they just have 1 or 2 I just bill same as the others.

   If they are just bringing you one long log or all are long, I agree a higher rate would be appropriate since you can't make it up elsewhere. JMHO.
I agree.  One or two 16' logs out of a 15 or 20 log job is okay.  It's when the entire job is long logs and lumber it really works a tail gunner and I have to help.  The alternative is two customer provided tail gunners. 
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Offline E-Tex

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2018, 10:24:46 PM »
Here's the "Rest of the Story"......

The customer is building a Timber Frame house.  He ordered a "kit" from someone that specializes in timbers.  He received the first load of roughly 80 White Oak timbers ranging from 12' 6" to 20' 8" +/-)  Sizes were to be 8x8, 8x10, 8x12.  HOWEVER, almost every single one was cut WAY OFF. 

One end would be 9"x9" and the other was 7.5"x 7.5" (they all varied in size).  No where close to the 8x8's needed (the 8x10's and 8x12's were the same way).  At first the "Timber Specialist" told him they were off due to drying, moving, bowing, etc......  some of which is true, however the reality is he had a production issue.  (to me it was like he left a toe-board up or something.....? - they were not consistent in size or or square).  That is when the customer found me and I thought I could help him.

Today he had the framing crew there, loading and unloading Timers on my mill and I did my best to "Clean them up".....get them close to their intended size.

Customer was happy, the job went well, and I got paid!.  And now, I know for sure I can fit a 20' 8" log or timber on my mill......(which is what started this whole thing!!!!)

Thanks for the input!


PS.......Customer is "working it out" with the Timber Frame Specialist......the next loads should be right! 

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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2018, 11:50:38 PM »
Doesn't sound like any kind of "specialist".  If the sticks are that bad, he knew it going out the door.  Not someone to do business with.  He should fix the problem, but good luck with that.  The owner should give honest reviews on the web about this guy.  How would you even mill stuff that bad unless you didn't care and were scamming?!  

Glad you got your tasks done.  Being timbers they probably weren't that bad to handle.  If they were logs, I'd definitely tell you that you need to up charge for the long length.  Last week I wrestled a 25 foot Ash that went from 22 to 26 dia.  It was not a totally symmetric log  and because of that I had a hard time loading it on the mill.  Also to roll it, I had to take it off the mill with the skid loader, roll it on bunks on the ground and reload it on the mill.  Sometimes it would roll as I'm putting it on and scoot the mill.  It was a lot of on and off and a day and a half to mill that one log (into a 12x18 tie beam).  I tackled another one today 23 feet long 20-26 dia.  First two sides were fine but rolling on the third side it kept rolling just as I got it up to the mill.  8 times I had to take it off , re-roll it, and try to get it back on, scooting the mill several times in the process and having to lift and reset the mill.  Long logs take a lot more time, and a lot more handling, period.  (Lt15go with 2 extensions).
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline E-Tex

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #28 on: June 12, 2018, 12:58:37 PM »
brad...... yes, the 20+ foot timbers were easy to handle (3 helpers and 1 bobcat to load and unload - great crew), but I know 20 foot logs would be another story. 

I knew going in what would be at hand and it was billed by the hour, plus travel......good money making day.

every job is a learning experience.




longest road trip so far for me.....96 miles one way

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Offline rjwoelk

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2018, 01:28:10 PM »
It's this guy going to cut the 20's in half to get two 10's?   :D A false economy if ever there was one.
That is like this winter. Engineered lumber. Can get any length they want. But they asked for a 60 ft. So needed a triple axle trailer. Then permits for over length. Could not haul at night in N Dakota. No beacons on the tractor unit. Coming out of Ontario no night travel. Got it to Oregon and the guy was grumpy because he had to cut it up into shorter lengths .
:laugh:
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2018, 02:27:34 AM »
The worst thing would be for someone to ask you to cut your max log length, then after you're done, they start cutting the lumber into 8 foot lengths! Don't get rjwoelk started on that one!
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
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Offline ljmathias

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2018, 09:37:29 PM »
Dave_Shepard: is that sawmill for real? If so, how do you haul behind your truck? Seems like the turning radius might be a little big? And backing up? Ouch.

So when I was building my sawmill shed, I needed two beams longer than my sawmill (wanted to have openings on both sides to bring in logs at the maximum length). Anyway, I'd read somewhere (on here?) that you could use your roller boards if you were careful. How, you might ask? It's tricky.

First you load the overlength log onto the deck, one end up against the band on that end, the other end sticking out past the end of the mill. Now raise the roller boards (mine are hydraulic so that's no problem). Hard part is getting the two roller boards to exactly the same height. Measure, re-measure, put a level on it (if your mill is sitting flat), whatever it takes. Now start your first cut, go all the way to the end, stop and pull back the length of the uncut log sticking out plus a foot or so.

Did I mention that you need a pretty flat face on the bottom side to keep it from turning? Or you just rely on grace on dumb luck (which is my usual approach).

Ok, now you slide the whole log back toward the now-stationary blade till it is just short of the cut. The end of the log should be inside your black tape marks now. If not, move everything some more. The next part works best if you have a helper behind you holding onto the log for dear life to keep it aligned with the blade in the cut you've already made. Start your blade turning, finish your cut: now the hard parts done.

Once you have a flat face, the rest is easy. I only cut two faces, top and bottom, since I wasn't going for a finished look on my beams or roof. Slide the log back down, flip it over 180 degrees and cut the other side the same way. Did this for two logs that became the two beams for the shed I built on the slab I poured to anchor the mill to. It all worked out, although cutting those two beams was time consuming and somewhat chancey: think about what would have happened had the log turned a little and bound up the blade. Better yet, don't think about it; just be really careful and have a good helper (although I actually didn't- managed the whole thing with dumb luck and a FEL).

LJ
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2018, 10:00:34 PM »
You don't move a mill with the extensions like that. LT40+BX24+BX12=57' capacity. 
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Offline ljmathias

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2018, 09:14:07 AM »
Wasn't sure if it was even possible, Dave, thanks. Reason i asked is the prom limos around here keep getting longer, although not quite up to 57' yet : ) . And of course, semis have trailers that long, don't they?

Now the real questions: how did you make the bed that long and how much need to you have for wood cut that long?

LJ
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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2018, 10:23:58 AM »
Wood Mizer offers three bed extensions, 6', 12', and 24'. We had a 12' and a 24' extension. A lot of timber framing projects require long timbers. That's a 52' 12"x12" white pine plate. I've done a bunch of timbers in the 40' to 52' range. 
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Offline Southside logger

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2018, 12:29:06 PM »
Dave - How big of a stick did it take to make a 52' 12x12?
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2018, 02:26:34 PM »
You need about an 18" tip. 

This was one of the loads of logs to make the 12x12s.



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Offline Andries

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2018, 04:06:23 PM »
Dave - How big of a stick did it take to make a 52' 12x12?
I call that the "half again" rule.
If you want 12" then half again is 18".


 


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Offline Andries

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2018, 04:11:06 PM »
 . . . and a side note.
The snow HAS melted up here!
We hit a high of 77 degrees today.

 
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: WM - "Max" log length.....?
« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2018, 05:21:13 PM »
To be precise, it's the 1.414213562 to 1 rule.  ;D
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