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Need some advice ref. 156 acres, 65 acres clear cut in 1997, what to do now ?

Started by H60 Hawk Pilot, October 12, 2009, 12:11:07 AM

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H60 Hawk Pilot

I have 156 acres that had some of it clear cut in 1997 and the clear cut area is growing up like a jungle.

I was told that I could get some trees from PA for planting in the spring. I got a call this Friday and was told that the state is broke; just keeping the PA tree nursery open for PA State Forests.

I was advised to get a Professional Forester to survey the property and I'd like to do this in the near future.

In the mean time, I'd like to cut some of the mature trees that were not cut in 1997. Nothing great was left, some trees that were not that easy to get to. Also, hardwood trees that have defects and continued grow would not yeld No# 1 lumber (tiecuts, fire wood).

No# 1 question, what to do with the clearcut under brush ?

All the new growth is in competion with each other. Should I go through and cut out new grow trees that appear deformed or not a valued tree as --  oak, etc. or other trees that bring the be best value in years to come ?

Regarding buying my own seedlings, where to buy good seedlings ?

What is the recommended tree(s) to plant in PA ?
Case 1150B & IHC TD-340 Dozer's, IHC 4WD 3800 & CAT 436B Hoe's, Franklin 170, Semi's: (1) Freightliner, (2) KW's, Marmon, Mack w/ Prentice Ldr., F-700 Crane Trk., (6) Mid Size Trk's. - Dumps, Flats, 1 Ton w/ 40 ft. 5th Whl. & (4) Semi Tlr's., LM 2000 Mill, (2) XL 12's., Solo 681, EFCO 152, Old Iron.

Ron Wenrich

Why do you want to plant seedlings?  Its been 12 years since your clearcut, and if you were going to plant, then would have been the time.  Very few seedlings get planted in PA unless you want to change your forest type.  Right now, you're going to have to compete with all those trees that have sprouted up since the cut.  The only way to do that is go back to the clearcut phase, and remove all those trees in the area you want to plant.

Trees should be getting to the phase where they have overtopped the brush.  When that happens, the brush is no longer much of a problem of competition, because the canopy will start to choke out the underbrush.  If you haven't gotten to that stage, then you have a regeneration problem. 

You can go into the areas and remove trees that are poor in form or not of the species desired.  You want to open up the crowns of the trees that you leave behind.  If you open it up too much, you'll continue to have a brush problem.  In 10 years, you'll have to do the same thing again.  Its called a precommercial thinning.  If you do it, good on you.

Cutting all the trees that were left is probably a good thing to do.  Why weren't they taken during the clearcut?  My guess is that they wouldn't make a product, so they left them stand.  A good clearcut gets rid of all trees 2" and up.  A poor one leaves behind low quality trees that become the next forest, and also remains as a seed source that is usually genetically inferior.  Were you hit with the gypsy moth?

You needed a professional forester before the harvest.  But, hindsight is always 20/20.  If you want to go on the cheap, think about becoming a tree farmer.  They'll come out and give your tree farm the once over and give you some recommendations.  They also come out and reinspect every 5 years.  With your ambition, you'll do good under this system.

Most foresters are looking for woodlots to sell timber from.  Yours doesn't sound like a likely candidate.  They'll do a management plan, but taking samples will be difficult if the brush level is really high.  That makes the plan more expensive.   
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H60 Hawk Pilot

Ron

You Hit the Nail on the Head regarding this 156 acres.

The trees that were not cut were hard to get to or not worth much for timber value i.e. crooked, trunk rot, etc. .

The jungle I mentioned is all the trees growing up in competion with each other, most are 3" to 4+" inches in diameter and all clumped together... brush.

I thought about seedlings, 500 per year from PA Program as a start to improve on the 156 acres. What I have now is Unknown.  I'd like to whack some of the new growth of junk trees (call out) and seed good trees in there place.

Thanks for the Spot-on Advice.

Avery 
Case 1150B & IHC TD-340 Dozer's, IHC 4WD 3800 & CAT 436B Hoe's, Franklin 170, Semi's: (1) Freightliner, (2) KW's, Marmon, Mack w/ Prentice Ldr., F-700 Crane Trk., (6) Mid Size Trk's. - Dumps, Flats, 1 Ton w/ 40 ft. 5th Whl. & (4) Semi Tlr's., LM 2000 Mill, (2) XL 12's., Solo 681, EFCO 152, Old Iron.

4genlgr

Advice: talk with the state or a local forester.   my 2 cent   sounds like you have mostly hardwood on the site  like ron said it's just about ready for nature to start culling  i think i'd let things be for another 2-4 years so the canopy stays tight and the undergrowth dies so you can walk through and see whats growing then you can open it up slowly so you get stright stems   if you have sections of pine and hemlock regen under the other regen a light removal of the hardwood regen now will give them a chance to grow and get use to the light before removeing more of the hardwood    diid you have all 156 cut or just the 65 ? as i said my 2 cents

Ron Scott

~Ron

H60 Hawk Pilot

The 65 acres was mostly hardwood and 47 acres were fields (used to be farm). The remaining 46 acres is Pine with a couple acres of hardwood and was uncut.

This 46 acres was held until this year and will be deeded over this month or next (long story).

I understand, leave it alone... no cutting smaller (jungle) trees.. everything will work out by Mother Nature Decree.

Avery
Case 1150B & IHC TD-340 Dozer's, IHC 4WD 3800 & CAT 436B Hoe's, Franklin 170, Semi's: (1) Freightliner, (2) KW's, Marmon, Mack w/ Prentice Ldr., F-700 Crane Trk., (6) Mid Size Trk's. - Dumps, Flats, 1 Ton w/ 40 ft. 5th Whl. & (4) Semi Tlr's., LM 2000 Mill, (2) XL 12's., Solo 681, EFCO 152, Old Iron.

SwampDonkey

Well if your state had a silviculture program to help finance a pre-commercial thinning of that clear cut as Ron suggested, you got yourself a summer/fall job.  ;D You would be able to select your best trees and species to leave and space everything 6-8 feet for now. Open it up more later.
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1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

tonich

Quote from: H60 Hawk Pilot on October 12, 2009, 12:11:07 AM
Nothing great was left, some trees that were not that easy to get to. Also, hardwood trees that have defects and continued grow would not yeld No# 1 lumber (tiecuts, fire wood).

It was all well said so far.
Though I'd suggest to contact your forester (that prescribed that way of cutting) for a reward.

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