Wood-Mizer's Stellite blade.

[Bibbyman]

We bought a WM Stellite blade last summer at a forestry show.  (.045 by 1.25 by 7°)Today we had a good use for it so we used it.

First thing you note about the Stellite blade is that the teeth ain't set left, right, raker.  Instead each tooth cuts full kerf width.  We noticed that it sounded different when it was sawing.  The only thing different we did was to add a couple of cups of vegetable oil into the water/soap tank.   Seemed to work.  After a couple of hard cuts, the blade was cool and clean. 



Here is why we got out the Stellite blade. We had an order for 4x4 by 10' oak blocking and were sawing them out of ugly oak logs that had been around too long. This was the third in the series of "Missouri" class old mean logs we've sawn so far with the Stellite blade




The big log busted down to manageable size. The Stellite blade did a good job of cutting the 20" wide cuts.

I can't tell you how many board feet we've sawn with this blade.  We've sawn down three the size of the one in the picture and at least a half dozen medium size logs.   It's still sawing fine.  We need to saw a couple 2-3 more logs to complete the order and then we'll be back to our normal logs so we'll likely pull this blade and save it for the tough suff.

[ladylake]

How much do these blades cost, what size.   Steve

[etkoehn]

sounds like one tough blade

[Bibbyman]

I really don't know how much it cost.  Something along the lines of an arm and a leg I think.  We just bought one at the forestry show and Mary paid for it so....  :

Here is a link to the sizes available.

http://www.woodmizerblades.com/bladeTypes/stellite/stellite.aspx

I think there is at least one FF member that is using them.  Maybe they'll get on here and give us more info.

[logwalker]

If you need to touch that up some day you can do a decent job with a Dremel tool and a small diamond disc.

Joe

[Brucer]

They cost $125 Canadian, each (back in January). Sold in boxes of 5.

The guy I bought me 6' extension from last year had just started using them and said he'd never go back. He figured he was getting 3 times as many hours between sawings as regular blades. He has since shipped off all this old blades to his sharpening service and asked them to try to sell them for him. He now uses stellite exclusively.

I bought 5 but haven't used them yet. I've done the math and at 3 times the life between sharpenings, I'm way ahead, but only because I send my blades out to be sharpened.

I'd guess that if you do your own sharpening you might not find them that much of an advantage. For those of us who use a sharpening service, they may make a lot of sense.

I'm going to use up my stock of 1-1/4" blades and then switch over to 1-1/2", at which point I'll give the stellite blades a try.

[bandmiller2]

Stellite,is hard but not as hard as carbide.I have sharpened alot of the thin wide Makita stellite bands for a friend, on my Cooks grinder.Used the blue ceramic wheel and take light cuts best thing theirs no setting.Don't know for sure but I believe you get longer life from the band because it can be softer than spring set, its just the teeth that are hard.Frank C.

[ladylake]

At over $100 a blade the band life would have to be at least 2 to 3 times longer to come out even I'd think.   Steve

[Bibbyman]

I note on the WM web site that they make them in 1-1/2, 1-3/4, and 2" wide.  That would indicate to me they are marketing to higher production mills that have paid workers.  Having to stop and change blades every hour or so costs money – even if it's only for a few minutes.  Having a blade that can last a whole shift is worth something.

I've really not pushed it to see if it cuts faster.  I'm just not going to be able to tell that with these big, hard logs.  Maybe if I get these out of the way we'll keep sawing some fresh oak and smaller stuff.

[Magicman]

Correct me if I'm missing something here.

Seems like down time changing and interval between sharpening is the only advantage.  The total life of the band is still the same board feet cut.  The band will go around the bandwheels only so many times before it breaks.   And then if/when you hit tramp metal...... >:(

Say a band gets resharpened 6 times @ $10 and initially cost $20  = $80.  That's no where hear the cost only of the Stellite.

This seems like a specialty band for someone other than myself.

[Bibbyman]

Correct me if I'm missing something here.

Seems like down time changing and interval between sharpening is the only advantage.  The total life of the band is still the same board feet cut.  The band will go around the bandwheels only so many times before it breaks.   And then if/when you hit tramp metal...... >:(

You're right.  If it has the same metal makeup as the standard blades it'll break before you get it worn out.  But someone alluded to it being a softer metal that would imply it would have a longer blade life. 

Anyone running these blades on a production basis that can give us some more info on how long they last? 

[amberwood]

We did some testing of these blades before production, and the point was to find a blade that was a practical reality in hard or abrasive timbers. Both here and in central america there are logs that just eat standard blades. We needed something that would last more than 10 minutes before bullnosing the teeth! The stellite has a come a long way in achieving this. Think of it as a way of acheiving something that would otherwise be impossible. In this instance the extra blade cost has to be worked into production costs but if the material produced can achieve a sufficent $ then it all works out. We primarily use them for resawing recycled timber. For us it was the difference between one board per blade sharpen or six.
DTR

[ladylake]

A couople of good points, really hard abrasive sawing or haveing 6 workers sitting idle when changing blades. For us small mills I don't think they'ld be cost effective.   Steve

[Mo]

Just a note on pricing...... due to MFG efficiencies we have lowered the pricing on this line. Give us a call for new pricing, 800-525-5760.  1-800-522-5760
  Today we did some testing using different profile's on Merbau using the HR120 and the SHR resaws.   It is important to maximize the life of this blade that you keep, 1.proper tension, 2. the blade cool, and 3. blade guide alignment.
Bibby, could you keep track of how many sharpenings you get and let me know? We are seing customers get 5-6 resharps.

This line is avalible in:
.042x1 1/4  7/8 tooth spacing
.045x1 1/4  7/8 tooth spacing
.045x1 1/2  7/8 tooth spacing

.042x2  7/8 tooth spacing
.042x2  1 1/8 tooth spacing

.055x1 3/4  7/8 tooth spacing
.055x1 3/4  1 1/8 tooth spacing

.055x2  7/8 tooth spacing
.055x2   1 1/8 tooth spacing

This is a great blade for sawing or re-sawing exotic's in long length's or cant form.

I hope this helps,
Mo  (Gary)

[ronwood]

Mo,

I going to be sawing some logs that have been down for a log time and in flood water. Even thought the logs are power washed off the doublehards don't seem to stay sharp very long. Even though I have a debarker I still think I have a lot of grit in the log. Would the Stellite be a good blade for this situation.?

Thanks
Ron

[Bibbyman]

Mary made the first destruction test of the blade this morning by sawing through what looked to be a 40d spike – at an angle!



On examination, I found one tooth that had a chip out of it. A couple of others that had the edge battered a little and some welded on metal on a few others. Otherwise, the blade was fine and still very sharp.



Even after cutting the spike, the blade cut true and flat. There was saw marks left from the damaged teeth.    I don't think any mortal blade would have contued sawing straight and true after cutting through the spike.

We pulled the blade (and the log) and put on a new 4° blade we'd bought for just such occasions and finished our order.  Mary's off delivering it as I type.  

I'm going to take the blade with me to the Mt. Vernon, Mo open house that will be on Saturday.  Maybe I can talk Joe into touching it up for me.  If I hadn't planned to go,  I suspect I would have tried to touch up the three teeth that have a little damage and use it again sometime.  But... since I am, I'll let them see what one looks like that's been battlefield tested.

[Bibbyman]

Mo,  what would the proper tention be?  We just ran it like we do the other WM blades.

[Mo]

Ron the answer is yes. It was designed for this type of situation. The Stellite has a longer wear carachteristic, meaning that they stay sharper longer. Some situations as mentioned before, with the Double Hard you may only get two or so cuts, changing to the Razor Tip (stellite) will give you four to eight.

Bibby, run your normal tension, 2100 to 2400 lbs is proper. I like to run on the "high" side.
Any questions give me a call.

Mo

[ronwood]

Mo,

I call the number above and got a medical supply outfit.

Ron

[Mo]

Sorry everyone, the correct number is 1-800-522-5760

[Bibbyman]

I took the stellite blade down to Jim Alexander at WM Re-Sharp in Mt. Vernon as I was attending the open house there anyway.  It took him and Will Baugh a few minutes to find the damaged tooth.  Jim figured the blade was still sharp enough and the damage to one tooth so small that he wouldn't recommend re-sharpening it at this time.

We'll likely store this blade back for another day when we have another real tough one to handle. 

I hope someone that is running these blades will fill us in as to their life expectancy and cost justification of running them in normal production.  The price has come down on them since introduced making it more attractive. 

[ElectricAl]

Bibbyman,

Have you heard what the actual price is pre blade when a box is purchased?





ElectricAl

[Bibbyman]

Bibbyman,

Have you heard what the actual price is pre blade when a box is purchased?





ElectricAl

Yes..

[logwalker]

Is it a secret?  ???

Joe

[Wintergreen Mountain]

Logwalker,
   Bibbymans yes answer has my atention also. Leon

[ljmathias]

My wife the theater graduate would comment about a well-placed pause... so Bibby has our attention; now what's he going to do with it?

Lj

[ElectricAl]

Looks like Bibbyman is giving me an education on how to ask the proper question.

He in deed answered the question I asked.


Ok,  let me try again.....


What is the price for a box of 15 blades?




ElectricAl

[Bibbyman]

Ok,  let me try again.....

What is the price for a box of 15 blades?

ElectricAl

Now you've asked a question that there is no answer because as far as I know they come in singles or in boxes of five.

I was having a bit of fun with my short answer before so this time I'll give you the, "Long story long." version.

What I got was the price of per blade of a single .045 by 1-1/4" blade.  And as I remember it was $71 something and that was the price each when you bought a box of five.   So a box of five would be something over $355.00.  I didn't ask and was not told if that included shipping.  So yes,  I did hear a price but if you call and get a price on another size or quantity and the shipping is included, then you'll get some other price.  

The good news is,  the price looks to be about 2/3s what it was last summer when they were introduced.

You may go to their web page and pretend you're placing an order and see if it will price the blade that will fit your mill and the profile and thickness you think you want,  quantity, shipping and then get a price.

I just looked up a .045x1.25 by 7° balde part # BS3751587S and it was $69.00 per blade, 5 in a box at $345.00.   If you order 12 boxes (60 blades) the price comes down to $58.65 per blade and free shipping to lower 48 states.

To find the price of other sizes and lengths you need to expand the list by clicking on "View all blades" at the bottom of the blade selection page.  Then scroll to the bottom as the stellite blades are listed there - starting with BS.

http://www.woodmizerblades.com/bladeselector/index.aspx

[ElectricAl]

Even though Bibbyman is 250 miles away from me he still reaches out and jerks my chain.

But hey, what are friends for.   ;D



Thanks for the price.   ;)

[Wintergreen Mountain]

Thanks Bibbyman. Now i know why that grin is  on your face in the picture.     Leon

[backwoods sawyer]

Pretending to buy saw blades ;D, sure we are , just wait for the brown truck .

[Bibbyman]

Pretending to buy saw blades ;D, sure we are , just wait for the brown truck .

I don't think there is much danger in actually placing an order.  The above link I listed gives you the blade prices without even getting starteed with the process of placing an order.

[taw6243]

I have 40 of the 7 degree stellite tipped blades and they are working out great. you can saw for days with one before it gets dull on normal logs or if you are sawing dry wood like untreated western red cedar powerpoles, resawing dry wide cuts in most hardwoods they will cut just great for a very long time, although I've went right from cutting wide dry hard maple to big tooth aspen and it would not cut that without cutting wavy. (maybe the blade was too dull for that wood) The cost is quite high for each one, but 1 blade per day or day and a half seems like a deal to me.

Tim

[taw6243]

I haven't Sharpened one on purpose yet, but I did start to sharpen one by mistake at 9 degree for about 4 teeth while getting sharpener set to sharpen what I thought was a 9 degree. The CBN cut just fine on those few teeth before I took it the blade off. I do have the 7 degree CBN for use when I'm ready to sharpen them. I ordered 3 CBN profiles with my sharpener. 4, 7, and 9 degree. I would recomend you try it again. They seemed to cut very well into my clamp head, about 3/4 " and only 6 teeth had the tips prety well wrecked, the rest of them looked almost undamaged. 

Tim

[taw6243]

The very first stellite blade I ordered was the 7 degree .045" x 1 1/2" for my 2004 LT40hdg28. I ordered it because I wanted to try it out on a venier quality 32"dib  x 10' high density 2 year old white oak log that I was saving to make fence posts for my yard at the house. I got wide 4" thick slabs cut out of the log with no waves at all and then proceded to get 29 4" x 4" x 10' posts out of that one log. no wavy cuts at all and after that kept doing normal log sawing for a couple of days. Really exceptional blades. That blade I think I paid $91.00 for it. But now I have the 1 1/4" blades.which were much less, but I also ordered 40 of them to get a discount on the price. I can resharped them with no problem with the CBN. Because I still intend to use the other woodmiser blades for sawing for other people. Because i wouldn't know how to charge for blade usage. As of now I charge $10.00 for dull blades, $60.00 per hour and whatever fuel is used.

[coastlogger]

Anyone know if these blades can be sharpened with a regular grinding wheel?I have a partly homemade grinder/ profiler that uses 4.25"x1/8" chainsaw grinding wheels, wonder if they would do the stellite?
clgr

[Bibbyman]

Anyone know if these blades can be sharpened with a regular grinding wheel?I have a partly homemade grinder/ profiler that uses 4.25"x1/8" chainsaw grinding wheels, wonder if they would do the stellite?
clgr

The Wood-Mizer web site says - "Easy to resharpen with conventional sharpening equipment or Wood-Mizer's Resharp service. " - but I suspect you'll just have to try it on your machine as it may not be "conventional"..

You may want to get one and try it before committing to a bunch.  If you can't sharpen it, you could always send it off to WM Re-Sharp.

One thing I did hear was that you needed to be careful when setting the stellite blades - I assume because you run a chance of breaking the stellite tooth off.

[coastlogger]

OK  Actually I thought these blades had full width chisel type teeth that dont require setting.. I know I read about such things somewhere on here and I actually know a fellow who uses something like that but guess they are not the ones being talked abt.....?

[Bibbyman]

OK  Actually I thought these blades had full width chisel type teeth that dont require setting.. I know I read about such things somewhere on here and I actually know a fellow who uses something like that but guess they are not the ones being talked abt.....?

I actually said that on my first post about the stellite blades.  But I've since been corrected and have taken a closer look.  The teeth are wider than the blade (at least on the .045s) but they do have set.

[ronwood]

Bibbyman,

Does Woodmizer charge the same to sharpen them?

Ron

[pineywoods]

I obtained some stellite blades to try out. running on a 25 hp manual mill and a 50 hp lt40 super. Cut everything from a cresoted hardwood timber to soft cypress. They stay sharp 3 to 4 times longer than a superhard. When they do get dull, they still will cut nice and clean, no waves, if you push it but you risk breaking the blade sooner. Downside- because every tooth cuts full kerf width, considerable more power is required for the same cutting speed.   Put one of these blades on a low horsepower mill and you definitely won't set any speed records. The economics are still a toss-up. I suspect that if you send your blades out for sharpening, stellite bands would be more economical than superhards due to fewer sharpenings over the life of a blade. My blades all develop a fine film of rust from the humid air..I noticed that the rust on the stellite band was a different color and texture. I'm wondering if the band material is a different alloy than the superhards. 

[Doug_D]

Thanks Pineywoods. 

I was wondering about HP requirements and the kerf of this blade.  Back when I had a small contractors table saw, I could tell a huge difference between a full kerf blade (1/8") vs a thin blade.  What about cut quality?  Any smoother?  Us guys that don't make a living with our mill, maybe interested if it save's time on the planer. 

[WDH]

I got a certificate for a free razor tip blade at the Pig Roast, so I am looking forward to trying it out.  However, on the LT15, cutting speed may be an issue based on Piney's observation on low horsepower mills.  We will see!

[Doug_D]

keep me posted WDH.  I would like to hear how it does on an LT15.

Thanks,
Doug

[Bibbyman]

We got an order for some 20 beams.  I'm having to dig into some old inventory logs to get a few that long.  Also,  I'm sad to say,  I've lost track of the RazerTip blade we have (somewhere).  I've looked for it off and on for a year now.  I know it's here someplace.  Well,  I went and got another RazerTip blade.  This one is 1-1/2" wide by .045 with 10 deg hook angle.

I'll keep you posted.

But when it came, it came with some instructions to use vegetable base oil for lube – soy, palm, etc.   Where do you get this kind of oil?  (Besides out of Mary's pantry.) Do you mix it with anything?  Soap?  Water?  Windshield washer fluid?

[Bill Gaiche]

Try Bass Pro shop, Sams or Academy, bg

[Brucer]

But when it came, it came with some instructions to use vegetable base oil for lube – soy, palm, etc.  Where do you get this kind of oil?  (Besides out of Mary's pantry.) Do you mix it with anything?  Soap?  Water?  Windshield washer fluid?

I had the same question(s) when I opened my box. My local WM dealer didn't have an answer but he gave me the number for the head honcho at Wood-Mizer Blades. Here's what he told me ...

"Fill your water jug with 4 gallons minus two Pepsi tins of water.  Pour in 1 Pepsi tin of vegetable oil, and then pour in 1 Pepsi tin of liquid dishwashing soap. Don't pour the water into the soap and oil as it will foam up something fierce."

OK, that kind of made sense -- oil and water don't mix, but dishwashing soap is an emulsifier and will allow them to disperse through each other. So here's what I tried (successfully).

1) Put 3 gallons of water in the water jug.
2) Take a gallon container and fill it almost full of water.
3) Pour 12 ounces (more or less) of cheap vegetable oil into the container.
4) Pour 12 ounces (more or less) of cheap liquid dishwashing soap into the container.
5) Cap the container tightly and roll the container back an forth in your hands.
6) After a bit of mixing you will get a cloudy-looking mixture of soap, oil, and water.
7) Pour this mixture into the water jug.

Use this sparingly. It sure keeps the pitch off. It also tends to coat the bed rails with a very thing film of oil which makes timbers turn and slide a lot easier.

[Bibbyman]

Try Bass Pro shop, Sams or Academy, bg

I never would have thought to look there.  I knew I could get some "food grade" oils at the grocery store but I was thinking of maybe an industrial oil distributor.  Maybe they would have some oils with additives to keep it from spoiling, be cheaper, or maybe thinner.

Thanks Brucer for the info.  Are you running the stellite blades a lot, some, all the time?

[Brucer]

I bought a box (5) to try them out. Got 2000 BF out of the first one and it still wasn't "dull" -- just sawing a little slower . I got 350 BF out of the second one before I hid a marble-sized rock that had somehow got embedded about 1-1/2" below the bark >:(. I'm pretty sure that blade is trash but my sharpening guy said to send it and he'd see what he could do with it.

I'm just about to send them off to get sharpened and then we'll see how they do. I'm tracking my output and total costs so's I can compare them to regular blades.

[Bandmill Bandit]

My Blade collection includes Double Hard 10* 1.5" 0.45, Bimetal 10* 1.5" 0.55 (I think) stellite 10* 1.5" 0.45 and carbide 7* turbo 1.5" 0.45. Not positive on the thickness of the bimetals but you get the idea.

i don't really like the stellite much as I find the bands fatigue and break sooner then they should. Out of the 10 I tried 3 went the distance and gave me 5 or 6 cycles before the stellite tips were sharpened off. gave between 2000 and 2500 BF per cycle. the 7 that didn't go the distance broke on the 3rd or 4th cycle BUT did give at least the same BF per cycle.

The Double Hards give me between 1200 and 1500 BF (sometimes a bit more) per cycle and they go 4 to 5 cycles on 80% of the blades. 

The Bi Metals rarely break and I get 6 or 7 cycles per blade at 2000+ BF per cycle.

The carbides (3rd on the mill so far) seem to be indestructible. Well over 3000BF on 2.
First one hit a sizable screw at about 3200 BF and the 3rd on is at about 3200 now and still sawing great. The second one is not a topic that is open for discussion. The filings were significant and the damage as well and no there WONT be a picture!           

[Bandmill Bandit]

Bibby we have a Grocery wholesaler in Red Deer that a lot of the restaurants get their supplies at. We get 20 Litre jugs of the vegie oils there. can get canola, corn, soy and coconut for a decent price. 

Can also get the "feed grade" stuff from the local feed mill as well which tends to be canola oil in this neck of the woods.