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Wondering How to Improve White Pine Stand

Started by g_man, January 28, 2014, 09:13:48 PM

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g_man

Our woodlot was logged, liquidated really, in the late 90's. We bought it in 1999 from the logger. I have been trying to work with what was left. My main goals are improving overall health and vigor and where I can, promote saw log growth. We have quite a bit of white pine. All the good ones are gone and the canopy was left quite open. I should add that pine weevil and blister rust are a problem here. I have done nothing with pine so far but think I should and would like some suggestions.

Here is a typical example of a pine stand. It is right behind the house. This is how it looked  in June of 2000.



 

This is what it looked like today. Forteen years later.



 

You can see it has grown and also done a lot of self thinning. There is still a lot of junk in there. Also there is a lot of regen. There was no regen in 2000. This is what it looks like inside the stand. I couldn't get all the crowns in the picture.



 

What I think I would like to do is cut out most of the junkiest trees that have small crowns, or misshaped, or remain stunted and keep only the best stems. Here is where I have a question. There is a lot of logging damage in there. Some if not most of the best stems were barked about 15 years ago. Here are a couple examples.



 



 

The tree to the left of the tractor has the best stem and crown of all the trees in the stand if you ignor the damage. It is exactly 24" dbh. And has been growing well. Do I keep these damaged trees ? I would like to think they are keepers but have no idea what is happening inside.

After I thin the bigger trees I would go back and thin the regen, fir and pine. The pine regen looks pretty good weevil wise compared to other pine regen I have. That may change if I let more light in. Here is some regen.



 



 

So is that worth doing or should I just continue to let it take care of itself  and find a more productive project ???  I doubt I will get much out of the thinning. Some pallet wood but mostly I will just let it lay and rot or feed the neighbors OWB.
Thanks for any insight you can give me.

gg

thecfarm

I HATE to see trees scarred like that.  :(
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WDH

Thinning out the suppressed trees and trees with poor form or small crowns will really help the residual stand. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Clark

If you're taking the poorest then you really won't add much to the amount of sun reaching the regen which is good for avoiding the weevil.

White pine regen is more difficult to get over here so I'm a bit biased but I would hack every single fir in that stand and not look back. Let the pine continue to fill in and grow.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

mesquite buckeye

If you thin the stand, don't forget to prune them up so you can get more clear wood. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

Mark Wentzell

Keep a partial canopy over the regen until it reaches about 30 feet tall. White pine will have good height growth at about 50% shade, so you may need to remove a few canopy trees as the stand ages to keep the right amount of shade.  Some recommend  that you cut and burn any leaders that have been killed by weevil, not sure if that helps or not. I don't think there's much you can do to improve the value of the current stand.

All the white pine around here is either the junk that loggers didn't want or has severe weevil damage.

g_man

Thank you for all the helpful comments. Even though this is pretty small potatoes and only so-so timber I find it really interesting work.

Nobody commented on the damaged boles. Will rot travel up the stem and ruin the logs or will it get departmentalized so that above the damage will be OK. It has already been over 15 years since they were hit.

Thanks again.

jwilly3879

The stand we are cutting has a lot of scarred up trees from a previous harvest 25 years ago most of them clear up pretty quick, saved some butt logs for a friend with a bandmill and most of the damage came off in the first couple of cuts.

mesquite buckeye

The wounds on the most valuable log are not helpful. There is always the potential for rot when that happens. That said, if you keep an eye on them I think you can use/harvest them before they degrade and still have some value. ;D
Manage 80 acre tree farm in central Missouri and Mesquite timber and about a gozillion saguaros in Arizona.

thecfarm

I kinda wonder why they did not cut that tree on the left of your tractor. Looks like a good size tree. I have barked some trees that I was going to leave. That changes when I bark them up. I feel they might just as well be cut. I'm just guessing,but I think that might go about 2 feet higher than the scar. I doubt it will go much more than that.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WDH

The pines are pretty tough, and handle the damage pretty well.  It would be worse in hardwoods, they would most likely get butt rot. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Clark

It stinks that the previous logging job left so many trees with damage.  If you're going to remove some timber I would first remove one of the damaged trees that would be removed regardless of the damage.  That way you can see how far the rot has spread and what you could expect in the other trees.

Quote from: g_man on January 29, 2014, 07:06:32 PM
Thank you for all the helpful comments. Even though this is pretty small potatoes and only so-so timber I find it really interesting work.

If more landowners thought like you then this nation would have lots of high value timber on private land. As it is, there is some here and there with plenty of people slicking it off for all the money they can wring out of it.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

g_man

That sounds promising on the rot. Thanks for the info.
Mr Cfarm - I am pretty sure they were actually using that tree as a bumper tree. It is on the inside of a sharp turn where the skid trail comes up the hill. Looking at some of the stumps they left it was probably below there diameter limit back then. It is 24" dbh now and has been growing good in the full sun.

SwampDonkey

Damaged white pine will out live anyone typing in this forum. ;D I've seen white pine go through worse, fire, and stand for a long time after. White pine management is a tough one where I'm at. The moose will tear up the regen and whips, then the weevils, rabbits and rust have their go.  ::) I planted about 3500 on the woodlot and put them in shade. A few have survived the moose and rabbits, most have not. I only lost 4 or 5 to rust, and I have wild native currants on my ground, so they are not immune to future demise. The best I've read up on, grows them in shade to pole size, the amount varies, but young white pine is pretty shade tolerant. I've seen them survive beaked hazel thickets. It is also recommended to prune the poles to keep rust from entering needles by increasing air flow through the canopy for quick drying out after rain events. Plus it promotes clear wood, w. pine heals fast and doesn't sucker new limbs. If you have a lot of regen all over the lot, you might be able to get assistance to thin it out with a brush saw. Then you can select which species or tree you want left standing and space them 6-8 feet at this stage. I wouldn't be cutting all the fir down, they grow faster than spruce and go under the SPF lumber grade stamp. I could see if the fir was suppressed rotten stuff, then I would cut'm down because they would be spent. Cut a few of them and look at the stems. If they are white wood, they are keepers. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

g_man

I agree on the fir SD. At least on this site. They grow fast, there is plenty of regen, and the money per MBF is just as good as average white pine.  Plus for me with my small equipment they are a nice size to work with.
The young pine seems much more at risk dease and insect wise here, but they are nice to have in the mix and it will be fun  to try to grow some.

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