Hack and Squirt Techniques

[pine]

Unfortunately I have a large area to work on thanks to a storm that basically destroyed a 14 year stand.  Due to the quantity of CWD already on the ground (tops were broken out as well as a recent PCT ) instead of lop and scatter the remaining standing growth I was going to hack and squirt them and let them drop/decay in the future.  There is not really enough growth and mass to justify trying to remove them for the chip market.

In the past I have used a hatchet and a squirt bottle to do hack and squirt to cull unwanted trees.  With the area and the quantity I have to deal with I was looking at a more efficient method to try to save time.  Also one that is a little less messy and minimizes chemical contact as much as possible.
 
I looked at the Ez-ject Lance product which is rather expensive for the unit but can be justified over the long term if it works.  Unfortunately the cost of the capsules would make it very expensive quite quickly and that seems to make it non economical since the cost can't be passed onto the customer.  In my case I am the customer as this is a private forest. 

I was also looking at the Hypo-Hatchet product that injects the herbicide automatically with the hatchet impact.  While it is not cheap either at least there is no proprietary pellet and you just use the normal chemicals.  Thus once purchased the cost is done and from then on out it costs the same as the old tried and true.

My questions are two:
1.  Any other methods that I should consider. (girdling not an option, basal treatment results have been less than satisfactory in the past)
2.  Anyone have experience with and have used the Hypo-Hatchet.

[thecfarm]

I am no help. But do want to say I am sorry to hear about your trees. How many acres did you loose?  :(

[chester_tree _farmah]

Agree. Bummer. Ask the Forester has some threads on this subject and u will probably get more responses. But a  clearing saw is another option maybe. 

[pine]

The reason I am avoiding a clearing saw alternative is I already have more than enough CWD on the ground.  That is why I am not planning on doing the lop and scatter.  I thought about posting there but decided here.  Guess I chose wrong.  Will see if I get any other responses but will try another search over there. My previous searches resulted in posts that have references to hack and squirt but only in the same style that I have done in the past.

[beenthere]

No need to post two places, as the admins will take care of putting it best. ;)

I like the bark app method, as it just involves a spray on the bark. No mechanical action or extra labor other than carrying the sprayer. Use it most anytime, at least on the buckthorn that is an invasive around here.

I use Tahoe^R and here is a short article about the technique (although I mix it with diesel fuel).
http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/PDFs/ee0059.pdf

[chester_tree _farmah]

Sorry didn't mean to put u off. Search the whole site. Here is one and it is in this section.  My bad.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,67246.msg1007129.html#msg1007129

[pine]

I like the bark app method, as it just involves a spray on the bark. No mechanical action or extra labor other than carrying the sprayer. Use it most anytime, at least on the buckthorn that is an invasive around here.

I use Tahoe^R and here is a short article about the technique (although I mix it with diesel fuel).
http://pubs.cas.psu.edu/FreePubs/PDFs/ee0059.pdf

Thanks for the reference.  It references about the same statistics for basal treatment sucess that I have experienced and that is why I am not going to go the basal treatment routine as I need a higher rate.

[pine]

Sorry didn't mean to put u off. Search the whole site. Here is one and it is in this section.  My bad.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,67246.msg1007129.html#msg1007129

Did not put me off at all. Sorry if it came across as such.

In your referenced post Texas Ranger seemed to really like the Hypo hatchet.  The others not so much

[chester_tree _farmah]

It's all good. As far a success rate. What r u using for your agent? Sounds like the safer non soil active agents like roundup  have a lower success percent than a few that are soil active.

[pine]

Been using triclopyr ester (aka Garlon 4 and a few other names).  Works about 98- 99% success in the hack and squirt method.  In the basal treatment method when combined with diesel it runs about 75% on trees of 4-6 dbh and less than 50% when dbh > 6 inches.  It is my preferred chemical when used in a broadcast spray for general foiliar control of brush type plants where it runs just about 100% effectiveness.
Since I have to/need to/ want to reforest the damaged area I can't have a soil active chemical that has a very long half life or I will get my new seedlings.  I am also using sulfometuron methyl but it has its own issues (soil activity etc) and has no hack and squirt application purpose.

Oh and in some areas I use triclopyr amine when it is more appropriate than the ester form.  (near water)
If I go with the hypo-hatchet I will have to use the amine formulation as the manufacturer states not to use esters with it.

[BradMarks]

Hack and squirt, as you know, is tried and true, and your results show it.  That said, I am not a fan of the squirt bottle applicator (either spray or 20-10 flip top type), although your expertise may make it quite acceptable.  There are veterinary syringes on the market being used for forestry applications where you can calibrate the dosage in the frill, control your costs and minimize personal exposure.  Also, you did not indicate average stem diameter of your undesirables, not sure how the Hypo-Hatchet or similiar tool works on small stuff.

[BradMarks]

Oops!  You did say 4-6" or greater. Hypo should work.

[Claybraker]

Since I started that other thread, I've upgraded to a Gransfors Bruk Small Forest Axe. The cutting edge is a little wider than I'd like, but it has a thin blade that I keep razor sharp, and a 20" OAL. It requires very little effort, not much more than a flick of the wrist really. That comes in real handy, because I don't always have room to take a full swing sometimes. I've also used the Wetterlings Large Hunting Axe, and it works ok, but the head is heavier, and it's a little thicker.

That's good to know triclopyr ester works, some of the literature I've read suggested it's not as effective as the amine. I'm guessing your target species are mostly conifers, so Imazapyr won't work for you, but I've had good results on hardwoods, especially trash oak.

[petefrom bearswamp]

You are lucky that you can still use herbicides there.
Here you have to be a certified applicator to use any and i dont know what products are legal any more.
Back in the 60s and 70s we used hack and squirt with Sodium arsenate.
A wonder i am still here.
also i am unfamiliar with your abbreviations, CWD, PCT what are these to educate an easterner?
Pete

[Claybraker]

Down here, it would be:
CWD- coarse woody debris
PCT- pre-commercial thinning

I'm surprised they aren't in the Forum dictionary.

[pine]

Same in the PNW.
Should have used the term then the abbreviation before the abbreviation by itself.  Proper technical writing procedure.  I am out of practice and have gotten sloppy.  Identify the abbreviation in the start of all written documents or in this case threads.   

[thecfarm]

Claybraker,there is a place to suggest a new word. I had one added.

[chester_tree _farmah]

Good info guys. Lately I have been pondering why I don't start doing hack and squirt when I am out on my land just walking it. For the small stuff. A little at a time. I was reading some of the other hack and squirt threads a few weeks ago.

[Texas Ranger]

I had a crew using hypohatchets for years in Texas, worked well, efficient, very little loss. One man with it can cover some ground.  It is expensive.  We used Tordon, don't know what they are using now.

[pinehillstacker]

The company I work for uses regular Fiskars hatchets for hack and squirt, with a Stihl hand pump squirt bottle or a regular squirt bottle, depending on which bottles are working right that day.  As for herbicide, we've used either Garlon IV or 41% glyphosate concentrate with similar results.  My limited experience with hypo-hatchets tells me that they clog up with bark and debris too easily, but that is just my opinion, and it may depend a lot on tree species.

[WDH]

I use tordon as well.

[petefrom bearswamp]

thanks for the enlightenment on CWD and PCT both logical but my training was in the dark ages.
Pete