Small firewood dump trailer?

[John Mc]

I'm looking for a small dump trailer for use with some of my firewood activities. Primary use would be in the woods, hauling stove length rounds or split wood. I do need to make short runs (generally less than 10 miles) on secondary roads (40 MPH or less).

My wish list of features:

• +/- 2 ton capacity - light enough to tow with compact tractor or small pickup., maybe pull with an ATV in a pinch
• Electro-hydraulic dump - so I can still dump it when my tractor (with its hydraulics) is not around
• approx 4' x 8' - Narrow for ease of use in the woods.
• Road legal -  so I don't have to reload into another trailer when I need to haul it off-site (I don't mind having to add my own lights when using on the road)
• removable or lowerable tailgate (and possibly front panel?) for when I want to haul logs a bit longer than 8'.
• Walking arm suspension - nice for in the woods, but I don't see many that are road legal?
• good ground clearance - so I can get through waterbars on woods trails
• Brakes - I'm thinking surge brakes, but might consider other options

CAM used to make something that was close: their Woodsman trailer, but I don't believe it's made any more.

Anyone have any suggestions?

[shamusturbo]

I found the Cam Woodsman on a google image search. Looks like they simply took a dump insert for a pickup truck and slapped a tongue and axle on it. Seems simple enough. A used dump insert could be had for $1200-$2000. You may have to look hard and wait for something "useable" or even aluminum for some weight savings. Most of those insert tailgates can either hinge from the top or bottom.  You could put it on an already registered trailer of your choosing or build your own, which gives you some extra steps for registration. Also consider, if in VT, are you required to have brakes on trailers over 3k gross weight (like in PA?)

I wouldn't get excited about your wish list though. There are some definite compromises there...... 

1. 4k-6k# on a compact is still asking a lot (depending on your slopes and footing)
2. I don't think you could be road legal without a solid axle at 2 ton plus trailer weight. I don't think you would      want to be either.
3. You would need to run some pretty hefty tires for substantial solid axle clearance as well as wide one too because of the "float" you would need/want in the woods, I presume.
4. You would be adding quite a bit of investment to make it run on the tractor aux hydraulic as well as the 12v battery pump that they normally run off of.


I assume you are loading the logs into the trailer with the compact? Consider some serious supports other then a jack. What's going to hold the trailer steady when you are loading it?

Also, could you run a non-registered trailer with an orange triangle? I probably wouldn't try it in my neck of the woods but a 30 minute drive north, no problem.......

[John Mc]

I found the Cam Woodsman on a google image search. Looks like they simply took a dump insert for a pickup truck and slapped a tongue and axle on it. Seems simple enough. A used dump insert could be had for $1200-$2000. You may have to look hard and wait for something "useable" or even aluminum for some weight savings. Most of those insert tailgates can either hinge from the top or bottom.  You could put it on an already registered trailer of your choosing or build your own, which gives you some extra steps for registration.

A very interesting idea. I had figured making one from scratch was going to get too expensive (since I don't trust my welding for something like this). I was also hoping to get something that was "easy": one of the first uses will be as a demonstration unit in a workshop about "landowner-scale" firewood operations. Finding a trailer that is still in production that isn't too expensive would be ideal. However, if a pickup dump insert can be easily converted to this use, that may be something that's easily within reach of a landowner with some welding skills, or something they could bring to a local fab shop.

Also consider, if in VT, are you required to have brakes on trailers over 3k gross weight (like in PA?)

Planning on brakes, as noted in original post. Surge brakes would allow it to be used in the woods behind a tractor that didn't have a brake controller or wiring, but would still work OK on the road behind a pickup. I've never driven a traile rwith surge brakes before, so hopefully someone will set me straight if I'm off base here.

I wouldn't get excited about your wish list though. There are some definite compromises there...... 

1. 4k-6k# on a compact is still asking a lot (depending on your slopes and footing)

I definitely don't need 6000#. 4000# would be great, and I'd settle for 3000# if it had other things I like about it. I've pulled 3000# with my tractor in the woods on a homebrew non-dumping trailer with no problems. I do have to pay attention on the down slopes - I don't pull a heavy load when things are slippery

2. I don't think you could be road legal without a solid axle at 2 ton plus trailer weight. I don't think you would want to be either.

That idea was added to my list because I thought I had seen a trailer with walking beam suspension that was road legal somewhere. I can't remember where I saw it live, but one of the Wallenstein Timber Talon Trailers is road legal, has walking beam suspension, and has a load capacity of 11,500#.

3. You would need to run some pretty hefty tires for substantial solid axle clearance as well as wide one too because of the "float" you would need/want in the woods, I presume.

Agreed, though if I can do this with a walking beam suspension, that helps with the ground clearance, as well as putting 4 tires on the ground.

4. You would be adding quite a bit of investment to make it run on the tractor aux hydraulic as well as the 12v battery pump that they normally run off of.

I don't need the dump cylinder to run off tractor hydraulics. As I indicated, I'm looking for electro-hydraulic set up so I can run it when my tractor is not around.

I assume you are loading the logs into the trailer with the compact? Consider some serious supports other then a jack. What's going to hold the trailer steady when you are loading it?

Most of the time, loading will not be a problem, since it will be left attached to the tractor.  I use a logging winch to get them to the side of the trail. Later, I hook up the trailer to the tractor, drive up to the logs, cut to length, and throw them in by hand (sometimes split first). In the rare occasions that I'm doing 8'+ lengths, I'll use the grapple on my tractor - yes, I'll have to be careful about how I do this, since the trailer will not be attached. I may want to add some sort of drop-down rear stabilizer to keep the trailer from doing a wheelie.

Also, could you run a non-registered trailer with an orange triangle? I probably wouldn't try it in my neck of the woods but a 30 minute drive north, no problem.......

That's what I do now when I go out on the road with my homemade trailer. You can run an unregistered trailer with no lights during daylight hours when on "farm business". I don't ever get a second look when I'm pulling it with my tractor. I've been told I'm taking a chance when I pull it with a pickup, or worse yet, our minivan. I've driven by the county sheriff towing with my minivan a couple of times and he's never raised an eyebrow, but that's no guarantee he never will. (I'm also not a farmer so "farm business" may be a stretch, though the USDA does define forestry/logging as agriculture.)

[shamusturbo]

I was just mentioning brakes as a requirement if you go the legal/registration/inspection route. I too have almost no experience with surge brakes besides a few boat trailers.

We have a dump insert that we took out of a pickup to do some body work and my brother was itching to put it in a 5x8 trailer we have to try it on some half or 1 cord deliveries. It would be 4 bolts and mounting a battery to make it work. That's what I had in mind when I mentioned the dump insert and trailer combo. You are talking 4 bolts and a battery.

Also, consider a single arm tongue so you have enough clearance from the rear tractor tires. My dad's 1951 Ferguson TO-20 (same as the ford jubilee) cant run a triangle tongue trailer because the turning radius is almost nothing.

I couldn't tell you where to source the walking beam components. I do know what you are talking about. I think some of those off road trailers have hydraulic assist as well. Pretty awesome but well out of my price range.

The way you phrased it made it seem like you wanted the dump to operate off the tractor when they were hooked up. (thus saving the battery) I misunderstood.

I have a few theories on the whole trailer thing. I've done it both ways. Most times, the first fine is a fraction of the price of getting the trailer "specialty inspected", apply for registration, along with all the lights, rated chains, etc. etc......

[John Mc]

Sorry for the lack of clarity in my original post. I had thought of using tractor hydraulics at one point, since it would be cheaper to implement, but then I would lose the ability to dump if I was towing with some other vehicle.

I would like to have this one registered and inspected, since I'd like to take this one out on the road a bit more frequently than I do with my current non-dumping trailer.

The single-arm tongue is a good thought. My current trailer is a "Y" tongue, and the single arm part of it is long enough that it works well with the tractor. Since I haven't had a problem with it, I probably would have forgotten to look for that when I was shopping.

[Ivan49]

 Have you looked into the single axle dump trailers. In my area the price has really dropped on them in the last couple years. I made mine with a 5 foot X 10 foot bed for hauling sand and firewood. It has 20 inch high sides and when I fill it with sand my tractor pulls it ok but you have to be careful when stopping. I have been using it over 10 years now with no problems. I think you could buy one for what it costs to build on and then it would be road ready. I have an L 3301 Kubota and I don't have a problem with the V tongue. I think a single tongue would be very easy to twist if you are not carefull. I cut my wood in 10 to 12 foot lengths and haul up to the house to be cut up. I usually pile it on as high as it will stay. I have a tandum axle on it

[John Mc]

I could live with a 5 foot wide bed, but only if the wheels did not stick out further than the bed. Most of th e5 foot beds I'm seeing end up over 6 feet wide when the wheels are accounted for.

[Ivan49]

 I made mine with the wheels on the outside due to the tipping over factor if it was loaded high. That is what I do as many times I will have wood stacked 4 foot above the sides. I think most that you buy will have the wheels on the outside also. What be ideal is one that would follow in your tractor tracks but that would raise the center of gravity quite high. What ever you do don't use any smaller tires than 14 inch

[John Mc]

I made mine with the wheels on the outside due to the tipping over factor if it was loaded high. That is what I do as many times I will have wood stacked 4 foot above the sides. I think most that you buy will have the wheels on the outside also. What be ideal is one that would follow in your tractor tracks but that would raise the center of gravity quite high. What ever you do don't use any smaller tires than 14 inch

Good thoughts. Stability is one of the reasons I'd like to have a walking beam suspension. The trailer doesn't get rocked back and forth near as much by rough terrain. My current trailer is about 4.5' x 8.5' in the bed. I'm looking to pull half a cord, so I only need to go about 1' 8" high. (Sometimes I do pile it higher, but conditions need to be good for me to do that. Half a cord of green Oak or Beech can get up to about 3000#. Puling more than that can get hairy if the trails are steeper or slippery - especially with no brakes on the trailer.)

[Ivan49]

 I have brakes on mine but there are not hooked up. I only put them on there so if I wanted to license it. I quickly found out from someone else that it is easier to keep it at home if it is not licensed. My ground is fairly flat as I cut and haul the wood with forks on the tractor or skidsteer. I put an electric over hyd system on mine but I am going to change it over to run with my tractor because you need a way to charge the battery from your tractor and I don't have that. I can haul maybe 4 to 6 loads on a full battery then it has to go on the charger

[47sawdust]

Ivan,
I put a 7 way trailer receiver on my tractor.Just wired the positive and a ground.It keeps my dump trailer charged while in use behind the tractor and my truck charges it for on road use.LoadTrail makes a very good 5x8 dump with a 3 way gate on the rear,if I didn't already own a Griffin that's what I would buy for dual purpose use.
I would really like an off road dump but can't justify the expense.I'm looking for a beater dump as I hate using my road trailer for gravel and dirt.

[Ivan49]

On my super duty truck there is a factory wire going back to the trailer plug just for that. You need to add a fuse in the slot in the box under the hood. I made mine for mainly off road use as I  have 120 acres of woods and a mile or so of trails. Thanks for the info. Load trail was the manf. I was trying to think of

[711ac]

I've admired these guy's trailers for a long time, still haven't hit the lottery.
http://www.berkelmanswelding.on.ca/farm_dump_trailers.html