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Cable chokers or chain?

Started by David_c, April 23, 2006, 11:45:29 AM

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David_c

I need to buy new winch line for my new to me skidder. I have always used chain chokers, but this one has 12 cable chokers. So was wondering if I should set new cable up for chain or cable? Since there are 12 perfectly good cable chokers. Also how long should I get the new line?

Was also wondering max amount of chokers I should set it up with? I kinda thought 12 was alot. But I do know these things will pull. There where 9 on the 518C I used to run. And it didn't ever seem to be working to hard even though I was pulling alot of very nice red oak (long skid).

Sawyerfortyish

I've always used choker chain. But the guy that works for me tryed the cable chokers. He said there great when new you just slip them under the log hook em and go. But after a few trees they kind of stay in a circle shape and are harder to work with.
If I were putting on new cable I'de get the 100' cable and you watch and see you'll still be short once in a while. I've got 5 sliders on my 230 and its not enough when clearing for small trees but when cutting timber the machine will only pull so much and I use about 3 of them. Your 518 is much bigger but you can only pull so much behind you without damaging the trees you pass by. I guess it depends on the size timber you work with as to how many slidders you need and how much you can pull.

Jeff

We always used the cable chokers as they are nice to poke under the log, even after they curve. We always hung extra on the main line even thought we were not using them. Usally you would use 3 maybe 4 rarely 5 and we would put 8 or 9 on before knotting new 100 foot main line. That way as they got real nasty you could cut the worn ones off and have fresh without cutting the main line.  If you got the new cable chokers, use em!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Reddog

I have used both. Here is my .02. ;D The cable chokers work good on larger logs like 12" and up. The chain seem to pull down to a smaller loop. Plus you can shorten them so you do not have to pull every thing in to the fairlead. They also seem to hold up better in rocky ground. I get less slivers. :) As for length, to me that always depended on what we were doing. To long and it always seemed bound up some ware. 12 doesn't seem like to many for pulp. but for logs 6 always seems like about max I can get out. So to sum it up cables are faster to set but do not seem to go as small. Hope there is some helpful info in this ramble.

Ed_K

 I like chain, the skidder came with 65' of 3/4 cable. I bought 100' of swedged 5/8 but haven't put it on yet cause I haven't broke the old one.
I'm now wondering about the AmSteel Blue rope for skidder use. One + was the cable being lighter in weight, and less tiring on the old body.
I'm running 8 sliders on the taylor, when hauling cordwood wished I had more, but when hauling sawlogs most times it using 4.
Ed K

timberjack240

we use both but not together chokers are nice in the snow you dont hafta dig in the snow also easy to unhook . we use chains int eh rocks cause other wise chokers and rocks = yur hand looks liek a porcupine.
advantage of chains if they break you can reweld em chockers yur left with 2 peices  ;D chains are nice in my situation. if pap pulls em where i can get at em he leaves the chain on em and theyre easy to hook up that way
the major dis. of chokers is when you unhook em and they fly around and hit you in the face stoamch or "sumwehre  :o " else that tends to slow a man down for a few minutes  ;D    its more in what you prefer and the situation yur in is what ive discorvered
oh yea dont use em together maybe you know this but for those that dont ...
chains wrap around the cokers like an ivy vine and a oak tree makin it a sucker to get un wound and it watstes time 

David_c

Thanks guys good feed back. Now I have lots to think about. I was pretty much figuiring on going with the 100' main line. Mostly have used 75' and there have been too many times I wished I had a few more feet either to get to tree or to allow me to get up or through some obstacle. As for wood type both small and large. Still undecided about amount of sliders but thinking maybe I will put 12 on. In the small stuff it will be nice. The 518C I ran had 9 but we only used 8 but would double up a few trees. More work but for distance we were skidding it paid off in fewer trips.

Ed I thought about that amsteel blue. Do you know where it is available and what it cost?

Anyway keep the comments comming.

Frickman

I ran cable chokers all my life until last year. I bought a skidder with chain chokers, and will never go back to cables. The cable chokers are sometimes easier to poke under a log, but if the log is close to the ground I use a grab hook to pull the chokers through. I work in alot of rocky terrain and got tired of cable chokers fraying all the time. The one thing I have to watch with chain chokers though is they like to come out of their slide when they're not hooked to a log. I check how they're hanging every time I wind the cable up after unhooking because they like to come off when you're going back into the woods.

Jeff,

You must have been using the cable chokers that are pinned onto the slide. I had some on an old Franklin once, and didn't like them at all. Most guys in our parts that are using the cable chokers have the slides where you twist the cable in and out. They also have a tendency to come loose.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

timberjack240

ive seen a few of those chokers that have the pin through em 

"I work in alot of rocky terrain and got tired of cable chokers fraying all the time" yea that always makes yea happy doenst it grabbin ahold of those spikey suckers  ;D or when ya run em up under a fingernail  8) ... i love it  :-\

nyforester

You must have bought that Cat in Canada. They love those cables up there.  I must have 30 of them laying around from skidders I bought in Canada years ago. I use choker chains on all my skidders.

Jeff

Nope, our chokers poke back through a hole in the slide then locked.  About the only trouble we had with them was as mentioned, with small wood, but back then, we didnt have much small wood and they worked great.  If they got to frazzled you cut the cablle at the slide and just leave the slide on until the next time you either broke the end of your main line or replaced it.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Deadwood

I've run both, and they both have their pros and cons. It comes down to a personal preference, but I prefer chain chokers. You might lose them more often, but being able to unhook off the main line has its benefits.

In my experience, cable chokers are great for larger logs, but smaller logs seemed to result in more losts logs during a twitch. That's not good as time hooking up lost logs is a waste of time and money. Chain chokers get lost, but hold up better and really help out when selective cutting.

As for the number, I would think 12 would be about right for pulpwood logging, but you'll seldom use that many pulling big sawlogs. With chain chokers (with d-rings anyway), the number would not really matter because a slide and D-ring do not take up much room on a cable.

As for a length, I have always run 75 feet without too much difficulty. It really does not matter. You could have 200 feet of cable on a skiddewr and at some point would need 205 feet (LOL) That is just how it goes sometimes in the woods.

David_c

Thanks again guys. I think I will stick with the chains. I also work in rocky terrain. Thinking I may as well put the 12 slides on as I can us them in the small wood. But when in the bigger wood like was said they don't take up much room and dont need to use them all. Still undecided what lenght cable, but leaning heavily towards the 100'.

nyforester I bought it in Gorham NH. But it was from a french canadian or at least he used to be. Lives there now. But still very hard to talk to becuase of accent and he talked very quitely. I think maybe I understood about half of what he said. I still found him to be a very nice guy though. He had 6 of them. But I got his last one he was selling.

Ed_K

 David, talk to SpruceBunny, she is trying the AmSteel Blue on her skidder, she has all the info on the sizes and prices.
I bolted a 5/16 chain around the arch and hook my chains on to it when I'm headed back to the bush. It makes it easier for me to get them as I hook up, don't have as much weight to pull around to each log.
Ed K

David_c

Thanks Ed. I am planning on doing same thing with chockers, but was thinking to weld it. But bolting would work to. And save me from getting buddy over with welder.  As for the amsteel the prices I found make it to expensive at this time. But when the 75' cable I bought today needs replacing I just may do it. I do like the lesser weight to drag.

Ron Scott

Go with as much cable as you can. As stated, even then, you will find yourself being "short" in some situations such as when pulling from a wetland, hillside, etc.  ;)
~Ron

wiam

My experience with cable chokers the cable has about 3 links of chain on the end and a hammerlock was used to hitch it to the slider.

Will

David_c

I was going to go with 100' Ron but alls I could find was 75' so went with that becuase I didn't feel like waiting a week to get it. But next time the wait wont matter.

Dale Hatfield

We run 120 on the  skidders with 6 slides and cable chokers.
Ifn I have to pull pulp wood or  from the top . I Make a figure 8 around the log before i lock it in place. It wrecks the choker but beats getting on and off for droped poles.

We run chain on the dozers.

I have  at times put  a clevis on a cable slide and hung a keyway on it for a chain choker or 2.

Dale
Game Of Logging trainer,  College instructor of logging/Tree Care
Chainsaw Carver

David_c


Black_Bear

We used to run both.

Dale beat me to it, but those figure 8's with the cables really lock onto the wood. But, once they get twisted out of shape they sometimes do not cinch up.

We use chains for bigger hardwood and usually have 2-3 empty teardrops (keyways) at the end of the mainline so you can always run your main cable and a chain back off the trail to get that one lone tree.

Usually ran 10-12 slides with 9-10 cable chokers and 2-3 empty teardrops for the 2-3 chains that we carried. I'd rather have too many than not enough.

Chains get lost in the snow and cables are easier to get under the snow and we often hook up before dropping the tree if we foresee this problem.

We would cut grooves into the rear metal plate (arch plate) and slide our extra cables into them for storage. This will keep your cables out of the mud and keep your cables from tangling with the hitch or getting tangled up into the chains. Cut a hole large enough for the end ball of the cable to slide through and then a 7-8" groove below it that is only large enough for the cable but not large enough for the ball.

When pulling bunched wood we used to run our mainline and one good cable under the bunch and then secure the choker cable into the next teardrop that was up the mainline. The mainline would secure itself around the hitch and was a great way to pull wood. This method didn't work well in large hardwood and worked best in medium to large hitches of softwood. If the buncher operator had a hair across his as& then he would pile the wood tight to the ground and you couldn't get under unless you pushed it up with your blade. It pig-tailed your main cable after awhile but just leave it secured to a tree over night and it will straighten out.

Does anyone use Hammerlocks to connect the teardrop to the slide? Is this the pin attachment you guys are talking about?

Ed

David_c

Thanks Black_Bear lots of useful info in there. I dont know about everyone else here, but me and everyone i know uses the hammerlocks.

Dale Hatfield

Yup Hammer Locks is what we use on the full chain set ups.
But when I  slip a keyway on with my cable chokers then i just use a clevis. That way i can change it back quick.
I don't have much of a market for wood  so its really a pain  anyway. Unless its cold and my pile is low and then its  a necessity
The figure 8 cable trick. I usually try and use the worst one . The one with all the stickers  on it.

It seams that a dropped pole  happens right after you have drug 80 feet of cable up into a hole a snake  wont slither down. get back on the machine .  Start to pull and  Darn thing flops free. It's never seen from the ground.
Dale
Game Of Logging trainer,  College instructor of logging/Tree Care
Chainsaw Carver

David_c

Quote from: Dale Hatfield on April 25, 2006, 06:11:03 PM


It seams that a dropped pole  happens right after you have drug 80 feet of cable up into a hole a snake  wont slither down. get back on the machine .  Start to pull and  Darn thing flops free. It's never seen from the ground.
Dale
That statement mad me luagh and cry alittle becuase of just how true it is.

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