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Tree wounding

Started by IL80, June 12, 2014, 09:06:47 PM

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IL80

I walked a neighboring tract that was recently logged and noticed some large 20" black oaks that were not cut but were wounded by the loggers. Also several white oaks, and even some 10"-12" walnuts were scarred. Question I have is..Is it "normal" or "acceptable" to wound some trees? And are these trees future value ruined? Thanks!

thecfarm

Bark this time of year will come of mighty easy now. Even with my small scale cutting wood,I bark up some of my trees. It should be avoided,but hard at times not to do it.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

IL80

Okay, this tract was logged over the winter into March and is located in IL. Maybe these trees started to heal before disease set in?

thenorthman

Pictures would help...

A little barking is unavoidable, things happens though.  If the damage is excessive then there is issues.

As far as disease all depends on the disease and how it spreads.  Wounded bark is an easy way in, not necessarily the only way in though, winter should slow it down a bit, but when it all boils down, trees don't exactly develop a scab, they just grow around the hole and eventually fill it in.

Barking and scarring are not the only issues at hand, compaction, erosion, rutting and root damage are other factors to consider.
well that didn't work

Phorester


Sometimes a small or poor quality tree is used as a bumper to help turn the logs in a turn in a skid trail as they are dragged around it.  These are sacrificed for this purpose. I also ask loggers to cut them when they are done. They will die anyway or are so scarred that they will never have any commercial value, and landowners complain about them.

As others have said, some damage to the residual trees is unavoidable, but some loggers are better at avoiding damage than others.

Weekend_Sawyer

I was very happy with The Loggers On My property A Few years Ago. They Discussed Bumper Trees With Us And Removed Them At The End Of logging.
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

lumberjack48

I did selective cutting for the State, Fed's and private sales for 30 yrs. We used turn trees or bumper tree so there was no scaring on trees being left.
If you did scare trees you your subject to fines of up to 5k or more or Black Balled, they did't fool around, it was taken very serious 
Third generation logger, owner operator, 30 yrs felling experience with pole skidder. I got my neck broke back in 89, left me a quad. The wife kept the job going up to 96.

BargeMonkey

 Region #4 in NY limits scarring to less than 2.5% of the lot or you can kiss your bond good bye. Its going to happen, especially with the larger machines and big hitches. We cut them as we go out, dropping them back in the skid roads to avoid leaving a mess and a line of barked up trees.
I cut a hemlock job a few years ago that had been barked up 30 years prior. Had a significant impact on the lot, 3/4 of them had become diseased and had to go for pulp. As a 12yr old kid running skidder my father would scream about  rubbing anything you didnt have too. Shows that a logger actually cares about whats left after the harvest. 

Woodboogah

I always start at the furthest point working my way back cutting anything damaged along the way.  No need to go back and "fix" anything.  You are doing it as you come out.  I am assuming this is done more often then not.  I have taught myself the trade so just doing what I think is right.
Keenan Logging & Tree Care, LLC

Jhenderson

25-30 years ago a standard contract charged 3 times the bid rate for unnecessary damage to the residual stand, and you had to leave the wood.

BargeMonkey

Quote from: Jhenderson on June 13, 2014, 06:31:13 PM
25-30 years ago a standard contract charged 3 times the bid rate for unnecessary damage to the residual stand, and you had to leave the wood.
Some of the jobs ive seen lately make you shake your head. There is 1 particular logging family in our area known for destruction, but they are smart. Cut the best first, so if you get thrown out your basically losing the firewood. The mechanical guys around here "hear" all about how we cut so much harder, and make a mess, but for some reason I have 1mil bft of timber to cut right now.  8)

WDH

The real pros do not scar up many leave trees at all.  You can come walk my loblolly pine plantation thinnings and you will be hard pressed to find any.  Pre-harvest planning and and knowing how everything will flow is critical. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

coxy

not trying to be an a-- but if you scar the trees along skid road and cut them down    the next time you cut logs the other ones get it    you cut them down then more get it would it be better to leave them so no other ones get scared up   once they are scared they are pretty much low grade so why not leave them  as a bumper     this time of year stinks as barking is very easy to do I had a basswood that got barked at least 30ft up looked funny with no bark left it a week thought the leaves would wilt but they didn't so I cut it would it take longer or will it still grow

Ianab

I think what he's saying is they are crop trees anyway. He leaves them in place while he drags the more distant trees, and they act as "bumpers" if needed. They protect the other "leave" trees behind them. Then he takes out the bumper trees and it doesn't matter if they have lost a little bark.  If he took all the closer crop trees first, then there might be more damage to the ones that where left?

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

WDH

As I said, it is as much fore-thought and planning as it is equipment operation.  The "turn trees" as they are called in the South are used to protect the other leave trees, and at the end of harvesting, the turn trees are also harvested. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

davidlarson

I had a forester look at my woods one time.  She noted there was some evidence of "heart rot" in some of the trees.  I didn't know what that was,  or what caused it, but some research revealed that heart rot is what results from bark damage.  The protective function of bark is lost by damage by logging operations, vehicular damage, or anything else that damages  the bark, producing a raw area where fungi or other pathogens can enter and begin to destroy the sapwood and then the heartwood.  The bark tries to heal itself around the injured area, but usually the healing is incomplete, and the tree is permanently and progressively damaged, and gradually loses its value as timber, and may eventually die.  Some others on this Forum may have a more knowledgeable or sophisticated understanding of this process.
David L.

BargeMonkey

 Barking the remaining timber is a loss for the landowner 100% of the time. I understand the thinking behind leaving the bump trees for another harvest, and sometimes you will. 90% of my woodlots are woodlots that have been highgraded in the last 30-40 years. I tend to explain to the landowner that by leaving the garbage and remaining lowgrade thats its never going to get any better. Unless im cutting a high dollar lot with alot of stumpage, its not getting cut again for another 20, so the bump trees go. Another thing, and alot of the small cable guys dont wanna hear, the equipment is getting bigger. My jacks 10' 2" wide, Timbco is 9' 8" wide, the roads are going to be wide, If I can cut select timber with the 440D or 450G I will. Some of the landowners need to see some of the large cuts up north, oh boy.  8)

deastman

My processor is 8.5' wide and I always try to cut my trails as narrow as I can without damaging any of the residual trees but sometimes it does happen.  If it is a small undersize tree that gets the top broken off or bent over I always cut it,  I hate the looks of damaged or leaned over trees and I don't think the landowners like them either.  Sometimes I try to cut my trails to narrow and then struggle to find room to work but I always leave my job looking as neat and clean as possible.
Samsung 130 LCM-3 with Fabtek 4-roller and Cat 554 forwarder, Cat EL 180 excavator, Cat D3C dozer, Cat D7E dozer, '92 Ford LTL 9000 dump, Easy-2-Load 25 Ton tag-a-long, current project under construction: '91 Peterbilt 379 with a Hood 8000 w/extenda-boom loader

BargeMonkey

 The job im on right now the land owner wanted "clear spots for tree stands and nice atv trails". Ive got a couple spots where we hammered the pulp and low grade off, promoting the small young oaks to grow. Thats the hard thing to explain to alot of people.

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