Two heads are better than one

ElectricAl · March 01, 2003, 08:43:19 PM

Recently I was over at the WoodWeb and read a post about inspecting lumber. I had a question about 2c Walnut. Walnut is graded very differently than Red Oak.

We had a PO for a new buyer and wanted to make sure there were no problems with the order. So I sent an email to him.
After several emails I was sure we had our ducks in a row, and we started sawing. As it turns out our email contact is an NHLA inspector in our area. He offered to come down and take a look. :P

Today was the day, we flipped through some boards and talked grade. Most everything was to his liking, he did find a couple boards we could have cut back and up graded.

The inspector mentioned he had purchased his uncles Crab circular sawmill. So we proceded to saw up a nasty old bone walnut and talk about opening faces, full taper sawing, and bent logs. We used our WM because it is so similar to his Crab, and all the techniques are interchangable......NOT

Regardless, he is a swell chap with information to share.

He is a member now and goes by INSPECTORWOODY

So if you have some advice about a Crab (not your wife) or a question about NHLA rules, he's ready to get things going. ;D

ElectricAl

Bibbyman · March 02, 2003, 01:54:16 AM

When we approached our local lumber broker about buying lumber from us, I asked him if Mary could watch our first load of lumber being graded. He said normally they would not allow it but seeing that it was our first load, they would. Mary is not a certified grader but has taken the NHLA lumber inspection short course (and also log grading).

Mary brought in our first load and stood beside the inspector/buyer and they talked about a few boards here and there and I think both felt it was a positive experience. She brought in the second load and they offered her a buyer's job as they had lost one of their buyers.

We've apparently got off on a good foot with this broker and our grade and footage has been very good. I think too, we made an effort not to try to send them something they can't use – as in trying to slip something past them. When I'm sawing and see some pinworm holes, a crack, or some other hard to see defect, etc., I'll take a crayon and mark it.

One other note: We've only dealt with a handful of brokers but we've found they there are NHLA rules but the buyer's may not buy all lumber across the full range of the rules. For example, one place would not buy boards less than 6" wide and 8' and trim long.

Welcome to the Fourm, INSPECTORWOODY.

Jeff · March 02, 2003, 06:00:37 AM

I think Inspectorwoody was having cookie twubbles. I hope I got them sorted out for him last night. I see he was finally able to login and move around.

ElectricAl · March 02, 2003, 06:21:16 AM

Jeff,

It's easier to navigate through live (or the FF) with the help of a friend. Thanks for helping out.

Bibbyman,

I took the NHLA 3 day Grading class in 1995.
The instructor really crams a lot of info in your head. :P
The class does not make you a certified inspector, but it gives you knowledge and knowledge is power.

Right Arkansawyer? ;)

I would encourage anyone who sells green lumber on the open market to attend a grading short course. You will earn your money back by producing a better manufactured product.

ElectricAl

inspectorwoody · March 02, 2003, 06:57:50 AM

;D I want to Thank ElectricAl for Welcoming me on board. I also want to Thank the rest of you guys out there for your warm welcomes and the many to come.

A big Thanks to Jeff for helping me get my cookies figured out!

I look forward to working with all of you weather it be in regards to inspection or anything else.

Thanks again

inspectorwoody 8)

Ron Wenrich · March 02, 2003, 07:24:42 AM

What I find interesting with graders, what seems to pass on one guys grade, doesn't seem to make it on anothers. We sell to quite a few different wholesalers. We try to sell the most to those who give us the best grade and scale.

Our best buyers are end users. They will give a better grade than those who are reselling. 2 of them grade on the best side, with little regard for the back side, as long as it is sound (casket and butcher block countertops). Another makes panels, and gives us pretty good grade, if they can use the piece. They are picky about mineral and color.

The resellers are starting to get pretty picky about length. They don't want anything under 6'. Their grade seems to be harder.

I took the short course, and used to grade lumber before we sent it out. We've gone to letting the buyers do the inspection. Okay for some buyers, not so good with others. I really believe that a mill can do much better by having the lumber graded when they are sawing. A good grader will give more in return than he is paid.

Mark M · March 02, 2003, 07:36:47 AM

QuoteI think Inspectorwoody was having cookie twubbles.

When I have cookie troubles I find a glass of milk frequently helps. ;)

Tagerts_crossing · March 02, 2003, 10:25:22 PM

Jeff that was nice of you to take them cookies off his hands. You could have shared some with the rest of us. ;D

Corley5 · March 02, 2003, 10:47:49 PM

I've never graded or taken a course but I've seen a bunch of it graded and pulled my share of those boards. The first winter I did it I didn't know much about it and still don't claim to but after a few days I knew enough from watching to know the grader was putting the screws to the mill owners. He was grading the FAS fine but a lot of 1 common was going in with the 2 and 3 common. I passed along what I thought was happening to the owners who are good friends of mine and they told me that was there suspicion too. The next week another company came in with there guy and it made a big difference. From what I heard later after the lumber packs were unloaded at their destination the lower grades were re-graded to sort out the better stuff. That's what the truck driver said anyway. The other guys who were pulling boards with me didn't have a clue about grade, weren't the sharpest tools in the shed and plain didn't care. I however was interested in the process, could see the irregularities and knew enough to pass along what I thought was going on.

Ron Wenrich · March 03, 2003, 02:22:07 PM

One thing I rarely see is a grader get down and figure out the grade. They don't measure how long the cuts are to make sure they fall into the right grades. They simply sight grade.

The other week, I was standing there watching a grader when he threw a pretty nice board out. I asked why he threw it out. He said because he said so.

And I thought there had to be a reason.

Jeff · March 03, 2003, 02:50:29 PM

I have found that in the past from certain lumber graders also. It seems that they feel they know it all so you don't know nothing. "I am the grader, I am god" prima donnas. Humph.

Hopefully we can learn some things from gadget and he will learn a little from us. There are some inspectors out there I truly respect and those are the ones that would have took a second look at that board Ron and told you why or said oops! These guys aint perfect and they look at a lot of lumber so the ones that get my respect are not the perfect guys, they are the guys that do thier job and have a little respect for us dummies that may be working with them.

Seems to me there is a recertification test they must take and be within a certain percentile on the grades. Maybe I am thinking an industry standard and not something specific to the trade.

inspectorwoody · March 03, 2003, 04:01:08 PM

I knew some where along the lines I would hear some of the comments I just read regarding inspectors. Well guys I will be the first to admitt I don't know it all but feel I am darn good at what I do. I am always open and willing to dicuss any board with another inspector or challenge him on his call. As far as getting down and measuring out cuttings etc and taken a better look at defects etc....I do just that. My supervisor has pushed me to do that and I push myself to do that. For one it helps me to stay on grade and two sometimes you just have to make sure your call is the right call. As far as site grading well yes a lot of guys do grade this way but I CHALLENGE anyone to get up on a green chain and CUT OUT EVERY BOARD when your mill is dumping on average 30mbf down your throat. It just isn't possible. Now if I was grading off a pack of lumber...well sure I would take more time to be on grade but let me tell ya'll a little secret. Number one objective is to be on grade etc but you may never cut exactly the cutting units needed to make that grade. Appeareance is number two objective....it all has to do with customers and end users. I am open to constructive criticism! :D I do agree that some inspectors feel they are king sh*t and those are the ones who don't know sh*t!!!!!!

Jeff · March 03, 2003, 04:07:18 PM

I'm liking ya Gadget ;)

Jeff · March 03, 2003, 04:12:57 PM

As a seasoned sawyer I have developed the ability to judge how wide a face is on the saw within a fraction of an inch. I developed this "Instinct" before I was made lazy by lasers on the vertical edger. I know instinctively how wide a board the face will make and 99 times out of 100 I am right.

I am sure that is what is going on with a seasoned inspector. The tape measure is in the eyes. After 10s of thousands of feet it becomes built in in the good ones. You may stop to do a check, but mostly that will be to reinforce the skills you have gained, or to maybe "reset" them if you will.

inspectorwoody · March 03, 2003, 04:14:07 PM

:D I like this place Jeff! Best site out there yet. Feel right at home!

Fla._Deadheader · March 03, 2003, 04:17:25 PM

Gee, a down to earth professional!! We just might get something out of this grading thing !!

:D :D :D

ElectricAl · March 03, 2003, 05:36:27 PM

Last Saturday when InspectorWoody was down, we flipped through a few uppers grade boards looking for some questionable lowers.

We ran across one.....Flip Flip Flip....The inspector was checkin' her out. He slapped the stick on my pore board and announced "surface measure of 4", then he proceeded to do the math with his crayon.
"Yep, 2 common"

Our purchase order is for 2AC and better, so we wanted to make sure our buyer is happy.

Even though I took a 3 day Grading class, :P
I am not a grader.
I have a clue what's going on though.

The buyer is happy, the logger we're sawing for is happy, so now we're happy. 8)

Granted there are some slackers out there grading lumber, but there are some puddin' head sawyers out there too.

I think the Inspector has the right work ethic, and the drive to do what's right for both the buyer and seller.

The best thing is, InspectorWoody is just a slabs throw north of us. Plus a man with a Crab can't be all bad.

ElectricAl