Block heater or not?

Cub · January 27, 2019, 11:06:40 PM

Yes I'm thinking a big no no on newer equipment with sensors and computers and newer aluminum heads and other aluminum parts and sensors and computers on newer trucks. But like I said I got a 1970 chev truck. And the mule is old too. All the same antifreeze. But yes ford diesels are prone to cracks and head gaskets n what not. I don't have a ball valve or anything in mine. The couplers restrict the flow enough I figure. Plus hooking them up and putting 180 degree fluid in a -10 degree engine isn't much different than when the thermostat opens n dumps cold antifreeze into the engine. My good friend has a 2014 ford truck with aluminum engine parts and he put quick connects on his and hasn't had a problem. But I wouldn't try it. If I had newer equipment and/or truck I'd definitely go the espar route or generator block heater route.

Cub · January 27, 2019, 11:12:34 PM

Also not sure if it really matters but my lines go to heater core in the truck come out go to the mule (when hooked up) then back to truck. So it's on the return lines. I just added 2 10 foot pieces of line on the return line of the heater core.

mike_belben · January 28, 2019, 09:24:09 AM

I am skeptical of cracking heads with coolant hookups. Its not any more abrupt of a temp change than getting the thing started and standing on the throttle while the injection pump is farting all its air out. Also the nature of fluid flow is to primarily flow down the center of a conduit and not the edges. Basically im saying if you had a 1" pipe and hooked up your coolant hoses, youd measure 180 in the middle and probably closer to 100 at the edges because there is so little fluid movement at the boundary later. Its a more gradual rise than ya think.

Sensors on the hot unit not liking the cold stuff i can picture, no experience there. You can always plumb your equipment with 4 port flat plate heat exchangers to handle coolant mismatch. There will be no mixing.

Dave Shepard · January 28, 2019, 09:35:16 AM

Heat exchanger would be best. Would need a pump on the skidder side, but that could be mounted and run on the truck, too.

mike_belben · January 28, 2019, 09:56:54 AM

You can actually mount the exchanger down below the radiator and get it to thermal siphon, no need for a pump. Maybe not quite as fast but we cant win em all.

Corley5 · January 28, 2019, 12:32:37 PM

The 5000 Iron Mule I had came with spit swappers. I never used them and plumbed in one of these https://katsblockheater.com/block-heaters/all/circulating-coolant-heater-2000-watt-120-volt It would warm up the little Perkins in less than hour. We ran it with a 2500 watt generator. I like them better than freeze plug heating elements and have had them on other tractors. I was going to put one on a 3-53 but would have had to do some extra work to plumb it into the head. So I put the block heater element in it and ran it with the same generator. Only issue was getting the generator started when it was cold ;) ;D The 6068 JD in my harvester has a Pro Heat. I never used the auto timer. I'd turn it on when I got there in the morning and in an hour or so after other preparations for the day it would start fine. It's plumbed into the machine's fuel supply.

Frozendozer · January 28, 2019, 02:18:24 PM

I got a circulating block heater in my 440. at -25 c it needs about 2 hours and then it starts right up. I start up the gen set, then go do something for a couple of hours and do something, always something to do for a couple hours be for starting it. I check fluids, grease it, ECT and fall trees.

trouble free system, I wish I could get the rest of the operation to work as flawless.

whatwas · January 28, 2019, 03:33:17 PM

Firewoodjoe,
The espar I use is a self contained fuel burner system that heats the coolant. It has its own fuel pump, Furnace,stainless 1" exhaust (I aimed this towards the oil pan) and a control panel for inside the cab.
You have 3 different programs you can set when you leave the machine. I set mine to come on the next morning I plan on being back, if I don't show up, no big deal. The espar will come on and run for two hrs than shut itself off. It burns next to no fuel actually you should run it through a cycle every week even in the summer because the supply line is so fine that stale fuel will plug it up.
I removed the heater off my old machine before trade-in and put it in my 580 case backhoe, all I can say is I wish we had them on equipment 30 years ago.
My present machine is a tier 4 JD with all the electronics, alum. parts and add on the junk they could fit under the cowling, doesn't seem to mind.

Cub · January 28, 2019, 06:59:02 PM

Here's how mine is plumbed in. Hope the pics are good enough.

Cub · January 28, 2019, 07:00:19 PM

Firewoodjoe · January 28, 2019, 07:21:53 PM

That's basically what mine is now but those are my heater hoses. I was just going to splis into those. Does your mule have cab heat?

Firewoodjoe · January 28, 2019, 07:22:39 PM

Well mine don't go to the bottom of the block it goes to the front of the engine.

Cub · January 28, 2019, 07:32:12 PM

Yes it has cab heat. I have quick connects on those lines to. When I hook it up to the truck I unhook the cab heat. Warm things up. Start the mule n hook cab heat back up. I don't want to circulate warm antifreeze through the cab heat. But you can splice into it and just put a couple valves on so it doesn't go to the cab heater. Either way would work I'm thinking.
Probably goes to the water pump?

Firewoodjoe · January 28, 2019, 07:43:17 PM

Yes. That may not work as good. It may be better just in the water jacket. I'll have to look her over.

Cub · January 28, 2019, 07:52:17 PM

I'm not 100% sure on this but I think mine goes into the block where there's suppose to be a block drain. It was all there like this when I bought the machine. Look like they removed the drain and put a piece of pipe in its place. The hose is just slid over the pipe n hose clamped though not ideal that way it hasn't leaked a drop yet and I've had the machine for over a year.

Cub · January 28, 2019, 07:54:23 PM

I have the lines on the truck so that when it comes from the heater core it goes into the heat. Comes out the block and back to the truck. Not sure if my thinking is correct or not but I want the head warm 1st.

Plankton · January 28, 2019, 08:19:39 PM

Seems like a good place to ask this I have a 94 f250 7.3 idi for a truck and was thinking of putting in spit swappers on it and the 353 in my Clark 664. Anyone see a problem with that? dont want to crack any heads or break anything cant afford it. But it sure would be nice to have an easier time starting the old girl in cold weather.

Was thinking of putting on ball valves so I could go half then full with the coolant flow. Truck is due for a coolant change so could change it over to the precharged purple stuff I have in my skidder.

mike_belben · January 28, 2019, 09:18:35 PM

cant be any worse than ether

Oliver05262 · January 28, 2019, 09:21:47 PM

My only concerns with the coolant swap are with any hoses that reach out from the engine to where you can get your hands on them to connect. Try to route them so they can't chafe on anything and dump your coolant while you're operating. Also pay attention to any oil or fuel leaking onto the hoses; heater hose will get soft and weak if oil soaked. A hose shop will have 5/8" and 3/4" push-on hydraulic hose that will be as flexible as heater hose, and much more resistant to oil. It will stand up to hot water with no problems. Kinda spendy, but worth it for peace of mind.

Cub · January 28, 2019, 10:12:14 PM

94 7.3 idi. My favorite truck. Had the same rig years ago. Sadly it went up in flames 1 night when I wasn't home. Long as everything is flushed good and uses the same coolant you should be ok. As far as the truck part I think you'd be ok. That's an old cast iron just about bulletproof engine. The 353 I'm not sure of. I know nothing about them. But like mike said cant be any worse than ether. Oliver has a valid point also. I never thought about the oil and fuel softening the hoses.

ehp · January 28, 2019, 11:41:38 PM

also the type of motor oil makes a big difference on starting in cold weather, my skidder using the normal 15w40 rotella is ok till about 15 below F but the full synthetic 10w40 rotella is good to over 30 below F in the cummins and much colder than that the skidder does not need to worry about starting cause the old owner is still in bed

chevytaHOE5674 · January 29, 2019, 08:25:43 AM

Last winter I went to a 0W oil in my tractor and it makes a huge difference in winter starting.

Firewoodjoe · January 30, 2019, 08:20:35 PM

Been thinking. 2 thoughts..... wouldn't changing to a thinner oil be bad for the engine after it's at operating temp? To thin? Also I'm leaning away from spit swapping due to I would have to drive that vehicle (I have three) and if I couldn't get close enough for some reason. Snow,mud. I would like to have a burner type heater some day.

Firewoodjoe · January 30, 2019, 08:27:48 PM

Well I may have answered my own question. I'm guessing as long as the second number is the same it will be fine. 10w-30 vs 5w-30. Hmm.

Cub · January 30, 2019, 08:51:59 PM

There's no doubt that having only spit swappers definitely restricts you. Sometimes you can't get close enough. I've been lucky and have always been able to park out of sight and still be able to get the truck there.