Need a better way to load logs onto circ. mill

[sawguyver]

Right now I have to step over the skidway to dog the logs. Its alot of stepping. Your feet get pretty heavey by the end of the day. :(

Is there a better way ??? ???

Does anybody else call this a skidway ???

[isassi]

I don't think its called a "skidway", but you could deck it just below the runners and it will still allow logs to roll to the carraige. I am building a log deck for my mill so I will be a foot or so lower then the standards, but my mill is portable and I use the backhoe or forklift or bobcat to load it, whichever one is handy.... ;)

[sawguyver]

My first thought is that would be hard on the back. But maybe not. I'll go stand on something tomorrow and see.
I wonder if it would be easier to roll the cant over that way?

[wiam]

I have seen a pivotting pipe set up between the deck and the carraige.  I wish I had my camera when Vermonter and I saw it.  Looked pretty slick.I will try to draw something up.

Will

[Ron Wenrich]

I've sawed on several handmills.  Most of them use the set up similar to yours.  You don't want the decking as it will make it nearly impossible to turn the logs with a peavey or a cant hook.

There are 2 ways to go about it.  I see you have an extension on your ramp.  How about putting that on a swivel?  You could use a big hinge or adapt some sort of arrangement so that you can pull that extension out of the way.  Then when you want to load logs, just put it back down.  That should work.

What I had in one mill was a set of rollers that I could flip up.  They were lagged into the log ramps.  There were 2 rollers on each one, and they were pretty heavy.  They were on a large hinge, and I would just flip them up when I dogged the log down. 

Then when I wanted to turn the log, I just turned the log onto the rollers and it would send it back onto the carriage.

As for dogging and undogging, after the first cut, I would do a lot of dogging on the fly, lifting the dogs on the return and dogging while edging up to the cut. 

[sawguyver]

Ron..

Were your rollers higher than the head block base ???
If so did you ever have to remove a log from the carriage ???
Did you ever work with a log turner that came up thru the floor ??? Is it worth doing ???



Wiam...

I would love to see a drawing

[dail_h]

   Ron,
   You're the only person I've ever heard say they had used turning blocks. The first mill I ever sawed on had them ,as well as several others. With a good turner ,you can really turn quick,and get back in the log.
   Pull the dog as carriage gigs back,flop block,turn log down,schooch it over,dog down as carriage advances. If done right,carriage hardly stops moving

[Ron Wenrich]

The rollers were higher than the headblocks.  They sat onto of your log ramps when they were hinged up.  If you wanted to pull a log off the carriage, simply flip the rollers down.

I never worked with one on a handmill, but watched several other guys do it.  It will tear up your carriage, and you must find a way to keep your carriage on the tracks.  It is really easy by using angle iron attached to the carriage and another attached to the track.  

The one I liked the best was the type that is a half moon.  It has a roller on top, and you can flip the log onto it to help turn it.  Turning out will turn a log faster than a log turner.   It is a Mellot #4A  http://www.mellottmfg.com/logturners.shtml

Dail:

I guess I must be older than dirt.   :D

[thurlow]

The last (about)  2 ft of my skidway/ramps are hinged so they flip back onto themselves.  They're made out of I-beam, although when I first set the mill up, I used 4 by 10 wood beams.  I just flip them up out of the way after the log is on the carriage, so I can walk back and forth along the carriage to dog/adjust  the log.  Will try to post some pictures in a day or two;  we got about 5 inches of snow this afternoon, which for us is about equal to 24 inches in snow country, by the way it affects us..................

[dail_h]

   OOOPS,not what I was talking about Ron. What I was talking about are a coupla rollers in a hinged frame mounted on the skids. Usually the far one is connected to a rope ,so the sawyer can pull on the rope,flop it into position,and then pull to flop it down out of the way after the log is turned.
   When in the up position,thr lower roller was a little higher than the headblock,when down ,only the mounting portion was exposed as to clear logs being loaded on the carriage,and normal carriage movements.
   I ain't really all that old,I just spent a lot of time in the past ;D

[sawguyver]

Ron..
I've been shown to set my log with the bow down for my first cut then turn 180 degrees and set fresh face against knee. With the method you mention I will have to do it differently.
Am I seeing it right ??? that once the cant is free it could fall on the rollers and will slide forward on its own when the setworks are pulled back.

I like that log turner and I think I'll look into its price.

The rollers sound like something I could build. Would they be about 10" in dia. And how far apart would they be. Maybe hand truck wheels? How high above the headblock base do you think I should put them.


dail_h..
I like the rope idea

[isassi]

I meant deck underneath the rails you have, so the step isn't so high. I have a Mellot #4 turner, and it works great, except when the hooks can't bite the log..... ???

[sawguyver]

joasis

Your right. If I just went up one step it would be a great advantage without losing my leverage with the cant hook. The runners would be that much easier to step over. It does'nt sound like much but every time you do it you could trip.... and you don't want that around a mill.

[wiam]

Here is my drawing.  I am not an artist.




This is an end view.  The dark square is made out of about 2" pipe.  This frame is two of these squares I'm guessing about 6' apart with braces between them.  The frame pivots back in between the bunks of the log deck.  Hope this is clearer than it sounds.

Will

[sawguyver]

wiam
I was a draftsman in a former life (mechanical design).  I understand your sketch perfectly.

Looks pretty easy to make  and it could be pretty light. Looks like I could even add rollers.

[Brian_Rhoad]

Every mill my dad had used a "log buggy" between the log "skids" and the carriage. The buggy was about 6' long and the same heighth as the headblocks. It had two "cross pieces", one on each end of the buggy. The buggy had wheels from a mine cart. They looked like small train car wheels. The buggy ran on a track made of 2x4s with angle iron on the edges. You could push the buggy very easily with a good sized log on it. The last one I made was made out of 4" channel. You could move the buggy where ever it was needed and the push it out of the way. It also comes in handy if you don't have an edger and you edge on the mill. It gives you a moveable bunk to stack unedged lumber on. The last buggy had "turning rollers" on it. They where 2 rollers on a cast iron frame that flipped up to turn a log and flipped down out of the way when they weren't needed. There was 2 rollers on each assembly at a 90* angle to the log and 2 assemblies, 1 on each "cross piece" of  the buggy. The rear roller, the 1 farthest from the log, was higher than the front roller. You rolled the log out, turned it down, and it would come down on the rollers and usually slide in against the headblock upright.

[sawguyver]

Brian_Rhoad

Great idea. How much travel is there between the skids and head blocks. How well did it work with 16' logs ???  And how wide was the buggy ???


With that system you can clean the floor beneath it real easy.

I can see how the boards to be edged are kept out of the way until ready and less handling when its time to load them.

[Brian_Rhoad]

We had about 1"-2" of clearence on each end of the buggy crosspieces. With a 6' buggy we handled 20' logs without any problem. You just have to balance the weight by positioning the buggy before you roll the log onto it. The buggy was about 30" wide. We edged the boards for each log when the log was sawed up. That way we didn't fall behind on edging. And yes, it was easy to clean up with nothing in the way. We also used a buggy to stack lumber on when it came off of the mill. It was on the other side of the head saw. We had rolls on a frame slightly lower than the carriage headblocks to "catch" the lumber when it came off of the saw. The "lumber buggy" was on a track right beside the rolls so you could roll heavy timbers from the carriage onto the rolls and then onto the buggy and then push out to where you could pick it up with a fork lift. You could easily stack 500bf of lumber on the buggy. This made it nice for a 2 man operation. You didn't have to go far to stack the lumber.

[lord_kenwolf]

we call it a brow up here. thats what my dad called it, thats what my grampy called it. thats what i call it. we have 3 long 6x6's and we have a 6x6 running ont he end that they sit on. that way we can use a piece of 4x4 and roll the logs on the carriage. one end of the 4x4 is on the 6x6 and the other end is on the carriage. when the log is on we just move the 4x4's out of the way.

[lord_kenwolf]

this is a little drawing of ours.

[Ron Wenrich]

You could easily build a set of rollers.  You probably could use a piece of 1/4" steel for the base where you want to lag to your skids.  That has to have a hinge.

Your top part would have 2 rollers, with the rear one being higher than the front.  I would think an angle of about 30 degrees would be enough.  You could use 2 roller bearings.  The rollers on the old set wasn't more than a couple of inches, so I wouldn't go much larger than 4" if I used bearings.  The only drawback from bearings is that they may break in real cold weather and real heavy logs.

The distance between the bearings would be no more than 1'.  Mount them in piece of steel, maybe some channel.  Just make sure the rear is higher than the front, and mount the hinge to your bottom plate.  Lag fast, then flip up when you need the rolls.

As for sawing, I never put the crook down.  Your crook is always under your headblocks and will eventually bind on something.  Crook is either up or out.  If at all possible, you don't even want those crooked logs.  They don't produce very good quality of wood.

When you get one side sawn, simply turn out onto those rolls and you'll have that log turned quicker than a log turner.  Turning out and only 1/4 of a turn will really increase your production and lessen the wear and tear on you and your equipment.  You'll also have fewer miscuts.

[sawguyver]

Here's a dwg of what I think is a turning block.




The top of the lower wheel is 1" above the bunk and its front edge clears the bunk by 1" also.

There must be two of these on the first two skids but would I need a third for longer logs (16') ???

I've included wiam's idea also. It seems simple enough I just have to lay it on the floor and hinge the back of it.
I hope the drawing is clear enough.

Ron,
Did the rollers have to be folded back before you could saw. The location of the wheels must be tricky so as to stay out of the way when cutting a 2" board but close enough to slide the log up against the Knee.

  smiley_confused
I'm going to try this but need a little more info before I start welding.
Too cold to saw this week so I might work on this. 8)

Daughter had to show me how to post a drawing  :-[ now she Knows she's smarter than me. Its all down hill now :

[jon12345]

A couple cant hooks and 2 young men is all you really need  :D :D

[Ron Wenrich]

Your drawing is the right concept.  But, think of that top part on a hinge, that goes left or right instead of just up and down.  You flip it down to the side when you're sawing and pull it up when you need to turn the log.  When hinged down, it would always be below the headblocks.

If you have hydraulics, you could put a cylinder underneath that would push the end up and keep the whole unit down during sawing.   

There are a lot of variations you can come up with.  When you get that working, you'll be a happy man.   ;D