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Choice of Grapple Skidder

Started by Northern Logger, November 27, 2016, 05:44:05 PM

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Northern Logger

In the market for an older (1980-2000) grapple skidder, something like a TJ450, Clark 67, or JD648.  They seem to be reasonably priced compared to the cable machines.  But since they are older, most of these machines have a lot of hours on them.  I'd like to hear from others who have older grapple machines what kind of hours they have on their machine and what kind of maintenance have they had to do on them.  I fear buying a machine, say a JD 648E, and having to do the inboard planetaries on it, which apparently have a life span of about 15000 hours, as I'm told, and having to shell out 10's of thousands of dollars.

Btw, there is someone on here who has a CAT518 cable machine who said he has about 28000 hours on it, if I can recall correctly, and has had no drive train trouble.  Incredible.

JustinW_NZ

a few cats like that around here, lots of hours with minimal problem.

we have a 528 and has done 13k hours but done the tranny, only because someone made a woopsie and cooked the orginal...
its a esco swing grapple and very good.
just done a lot of lines on it, new exhaust and cab glass too...

Cheers
Justin
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

xalexjx

I have a 94 TJ 450c dual arch, spent a lot of time searching for a strait machine in my budget. The one I bought was at 11k hours and I noticed atf leaking when it was up to temp. Bought the machine for the right price with rebuilding the trans in mind. Rebuilt the trans and lots of little maint stuff here and there but 5x the machine of my old treefarmer. When searching for a machine keep parts availability in mind
Logging and Processed Firewood

so il logger

I like my tj 450c, pretty straightforward to work on since it is all mechanical. The Cummins engines are very reliable and easy to come by. Good winches on them as well. Mine has the larger rear ends as was an option when it sold new. Great ground clearance, and ground speed. Mine is a single function grapple, and at times I wish it was dual function. 

longtime lurker

I like the Clark's. They're a tough machine, parts are usually pretty easy to source and the price isn't so bad.

As you say, it's all about finding a machine that hasn't been beat to death, and when you find it you just got to snap it up quick and hope for the best - and make sure the budget has enough slack for a major component overhaul early on, and another after 12 months.
What I've done with all my equipment is buy older equipment that appeared in good working order and then worked it. After a bit (hopefully not day 1) it becomes apparent that one component or other is the most in need of love and I've overhauled that first,  then the next, then the next etc etc. There's really only 6 major components to a skidder - engine and convertor, trans and pumps, front axle, back axle, hitch, winch and grapple: if you do one a year and keep enough in reserve for another after a bit you can feel confident about your equipment.

I know a guy who took a D6D dozer into a Cat dealer a few years back, wrote them a big cheque and told them to start at one end and go to the other and call him if the money ran out. He's now got a 30 year old machine with under 2000 hours on everything except the frame and undercarriage. It cost him 15 months payments on a new machine of similar size. He sleeps well at night: no payments to speak of, no worries about breakdowns. I've never been able to do it that way but I would if I could... it takes me a couple of years to get there but just like him I sleep well at night.

Sleeping well at night in the logging game is vastly under rated.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

OntarioAl

Northern Logger
When looking at machines of that vintage do your research
on owner history. The John Deere 648 's were a favourite of the loggers working for the Buchanan Group of companies and those machine s were worked extremely hard and definitely put away wet.
Cheers
Al
Al Raman

Northern Logger

A lot of great anecdotal advice and I much appreciate all of it.  I'd love to have a cummins but I can live with a Detroit 453.  Living in Northwestern Ontario, I know very well how about some of those who contracted to cut with one or another of the Buchanan saw mills.  I was one of them in the 90's.  Many of them ran their machines into the ground, seldom looking after things.

I'm semi-retired now, so it's more of a play thing.  And I'll do most of the work, since I can't afford to bring it into a shop.  But who can, unless you are running a large operation?  Regardless, I enjoy the mechanical side of things too, unless it involves a major job, like an engine overhaul or inboard planetaries, which are really beyond my abilities and interest.  It is for this reason I'm shying away from the JD648 machines, despite really enjoying them.  But the inboard planetaries are too much of a risk for me.

Longtime Lurker ... I couldn't agree more about the Clark's, whether they are the 664 right up to the 668.  They and the TJ's were the most popular machines around this area in the 1980s and early 1990s, up until John Deere introduced their "E" series machines, which then dominated the market.  As a cable skidder, I would take a Clark 664 over a TJ 230 any day.  And a 667 is hard to beat for reliability.

Maine logger88

The inboard planetarys  aren't a big deal tho I haven't worked on a outboard planetary yet. I have had them out of my 540 multiple times as well as 440 540 and a 648 for other people. Most of these were to do wheelbearings only once was it to fix a broken planetary. If you are reasonably mechanically inclined you would have no trouble fixing them. Now as far as price goes I have no idea. When I broke my 540 I found a good used one for cheap money.
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

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