iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Any news on the MS 462?

Started by WoodBurner19, December 06, 2016, 09:35:58 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

HolmenTree

Quote from: PNWRusty on July 29, 2017, 05:15:55 PM
I want one!

Not because of that video though. I'll admit I don't recognize the wood he cut but it  didn't look very hard except for the non-impressive cutting speed. I think a more effective chain might have made for a more impressive demo!
That operator how badly he handled that saw didn't do it justice. :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

4x4American

Quote from: ehp on December 11, 2016, 06:41:34 PM
just get the 461, my dealer has them in stock and has no trouble getting other 461's , I got 461 Arctic's and I like them, handle bars sure are nice and warm


I tried getting a 461vw (arctic) and my dealer told me they were discontinued can't get them anymore!  You know where I can get one?
Boy, back in my day..

ehp

Im in Canada and we can still buy arctic saws , I also was told I could not get any more of them about a year ago but we got another shipment of them . They sure have the best heated handle bars in the 70 cc up saws class.  My 372 xpws handles donot get warm very good on cold days

ehp

I agree, that operator sure did not do that saw justice , a 362 would get that fast in good hands

Felly Jr

I can't wait for the 462 to be available in the US. I'll be getting one to accompany my 461R.

ButchC

Quote from: HolmenTree on July 29, 2017, 07:24:21 PM

That operator how badly he handled that saw didn't do it justice. :D

No kidding, LOL.  Watching the "pros" at the Paul Bunyan Show I have often thought the same ???,,, or maybe we do it wrong ;)??
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

HolmenTree

Quote from: ButchC on August 03, 2017, 07:27:32 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on July 29, 2017, 07:24:21 PM

That operator how badly he handled that saw didn't do it justice. :D

No kidding, LOL.  Watching the "pros" at the Paul Bunyan Show I have often thought the same ???,,, or maybe we do it wrong ;)??
The operator in that video was rocking the bar and chain up and down like crazy with the dogs.

When you crosscut efficiently you hold the saw level and let the sawchain do its work without changing different pressures and angles.
Keeping the dogs clear of the log takes practice. In the competitive field crosscutting cookies dogs are not on the saw.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

ButchC

I took the spike off my 036 when it was brand new and installed a smooth block of aluminum in it's place. Came from the dealer and I'm purdy sure it was a Stihl part?  I think they called it a pulpwood bumper? Saves having to hold the saw back and works well except at the very top of the cut where you must hold the saw back.
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

HolmenTree

Pretty well all 70 cc and under saws throughout history had an optional smooth bumper plate .
Biggest reason for them was for efficient limbing in conifer.
Of course felling and bucking in smaller diameter wood,  a professional operator would have his chain filed to the point where it was always self feeding.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

AnvilRW

Quote from: HolmenTree on August 03, 2017, 01:13:58 PM
Of course felling and bucking in smaller diameter wood,  a professional operator would have his chain filed to the point where it was always self feeding.
You mean independent of the mass of the saw?  How does one sharpen a chain to do that?  I know that when boring by keeping pressure on the bottom (return side) of the bar a saw will pretty much self feed, but how does that work when crosscutting?
"A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us."

HolmenTree

AnvilRW, well if you haven't figured that one out then your simply not following manufacturers sharpening specs :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

AnvilRW

Quote from: HolmenTree on August 03, 2017, 04:19:19 PM
AnvilRW, well if you haven't figured that one out then your simply not following manufacturers sharpening specs :D
I guess not.  Never had to hold a saw back but being a machinist by trade, my definition of self-feeding might be different.
"A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us."

HolmenTree

Quote from: AnvilRW on August 03, 2017, 05:34:23 PM
Quote from: HolmenTree on August 03, 2017, 04:19:19 PM
AnvilRW, well if you haven't figured that one out then your simply not following manufacturers sharpening specs :D
I guess not.  Never had to hold a saw back but being a machinist by trade, my definition of self-feeding might be different.
???Machinist work is one thing.... experience maintaining a productive sawchain and working with it is another .

Let me explain and lets not put "holding back a saw" in the topic. Just letting a WOT saw rest on a log with its own weight will be self feeding and will then get out of control and stall.

Let's take a bar/chain cutting in the horizontal felling position as your test of self feeding with no help from felling dogs.

There is a fine balance in filing technique that will make a chainsaw cut with very little hand pressure in the felling position.
It's a balance between the right amount of cutter side plate angle, top plate angle , depth gauge setting and most importantly how sharp the cutting edges are.
Now don't forget throughout the filing life of a sawchain's cutters you can't rely on a standard one time setting, as for example the depth gauge clearance setting has to be progressive as the cutters get smaller.

When the cutters are new and the depth gauges are set at .025 that clearance can be too much with the ammount of side plate angle that is already in the chain right out of the factory. So there is some fine tuning needed for whatever tree species you are cutting.
Chain from the factory is ground at a average setting and angles for common use of whats it's used for.

So when your felling a tree with no over feeding or underfeeding you have a good balance.
But alot of balance can be derived from operator experience also.....
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

AnvilRW

Quote
???Machinist work is one thing.... experience maintaining a productive sawchain and working with it is another .

Let me explain and lets not put "holding back a saw" in the topic. Just letting a WOT saw rest on a log with its own weight will be self feeding and will then get out of control and stall.

Let's take a bar/chain cutting in the horizontal felling position as your test of self feeding with no help from felling dogs.

There is a fine balance in filing technique that will make a chainsaw cut with very little hand pressure in the felling position.
It's a balance between the right amount of cutter side plate angle, top plate angle , depth gauge setting and most importantly how sharp the cutting edges are.
Now don't forget throughout the filing life of a sawchain's cutters you can't rely on a standard one time setting, as for example the depth gauge clearance setting has to be progressive as the cutters get smaller.

When the cutters are new and the depth gauges are set at .025 that clearance can be too much with the ammount of side plate angle that is already in the chain right out of the factory. So there is some fine tuning needed for whatever tree species you are cutting.
Chain from the factory is ground at a average setting and angles for common use of whats it's used for.

So when your felling a tree with no over feeding or underfeeding you have a good balance.
But alot of balance can be derived from operator experience also.....
Thank you for taking the time.  No doubt I have a lot to learn.  Always.  I've been a sponge on here and then combining/reconciling that with my own experience.  I've been around saws my whole life, but being "around it" is a far cry from living it as you and others do.  Probably best to say I have 40 years of 1 year's worth of experience.  Ha.  But I would like to learn more of tuning/sharpening chains.  To take my own skills (or lack thereof) out of the equation, I've had new chains (Stihl RS's) on my 661 (25" bar) that wouldn't bog in a cut if I just let it feed under its own weight from the rear handle.  But I don't do hardwoods either, just DF and Ponderosa's and they're not huge.  A 2 footer is a big tree for me.  The biggest tree on the property, a Douglas Fir, is not more than 4' at the butt.  Bottom line, I'm here to learn, so my questions tend to run in that direction.
"A man with any character at all must have enemies and places he is not welcome—in the end we are not only defined by our friends, but also those aligned against us."

HolmenTree

AnvilRW,  you wouldn't be able to cut a log with just holding the rear handle with one of my sawchains. ;)

Something is telling me that the new 25" RS chain you claim that will do that on your 661 ......is no where near sharp enough as it should be.
High depth gauges and negative side plate angle with a back slope, no matter how sharp it is will do that too.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

ButchC

I think there is some confusion here as to exactly what we are talking  about when we say holding  back.  As it applies to the felling dogs vs a bumper pad. Prim and proper operation in  bucking the saw will self feed  with no pressure applied by tbe operator BUT the felling dogs won't let the saw fall down through the log unless you hold them back off the log. When the saw has the bumper pad it will slide down as the saw cuts and over a long day it really saves on the ole back,, at least my old back,LOL. The pad is a bit of a hindrance when felling and certain bucking operations but for a guy with more than one saw it's nice to have on the one saw you buck with most of the time.   As for making the chains self feed that has been well described by Holman. An experienced filer will adjust his angles for the wood, type of work and the HP  available thus the saw does the work with a minimum of input from the operator. As an example RS stihl chains work nicely with my 036 saw with factory angles and depth gauges when bucking in most hard woods however when I feel like playing with the 660 and  20 inch bar doing the same work I run .005 deeper gauges and a few more degrees on both side and top angles and the same RS chain will work the 660 with 8 pin rim  and 20 inch bar with little operator input BUT as said earlier you best have an good hold on the saw when you put it in the wood and you do NOT use the top of the bar unless you have perfect footing, a good grasp on the saw and your head about you. Those chains are near worthless on a lower powered saw and indeed dangerous on them so I keep them separate and we'll marked. Depth gauges are a large part of the equation but only when the cutters are sharp, Lowering gauges in a haphazard manner is DANGEROUS, use a gauge and dont get carried away. A lot is written about hot rodding saw motors and little about the chains but they must pair up and match the wood for things to work to perfection. Dinking with chains is interesting and the results are satisfying, give it a try.  Just be careful how you handle the saw as you make them more aggressive.
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

HolmenTree

If this MS462C is factory stock I can see from this video that Stihl had a real powerhouse of a saw here.
Very quick throttle response, high WOT and lots of grunt in the wood burying what appears to be a 20 inch b/c.
72.2cc and only 13.261 lbs (powerhead weight only).

http://youtu.be/lqpHAdCPE3k
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

John Mc

If that really is the "first cut" as the title implies, it might get better as the saw breaks in.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

HolmenTree

Quote from: John Mc on September 07, 2017, 12:57:35 PM
If that really is the "first cut" as the title implies, it might get better as the saw breaks in.
John, now after a second look at that saw there doesn't appear to be a mark or wood debris on the saw. So it definitely looks like it's making it's first cut.

Will definitely increase alot more power and speed once broke in.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

I cringe when I watch that operator in the video warm up that saw, blipping the throttle like that.
Worst thing for the connecting rod bearings.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

John Mc

I was wondering about his cookie cutting technique, but then I'm far from an expert at that.  I found it hard to get an idea of what the saw was capable of on the first two cookies. I would guess that sawing straight through (closer to what he did on the 3rd cookie) would be the way to go. Any of you with more experience in that care to comment?
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

nativewolf

Ha, hardly any more weight than my (new to me) 362c and more power.  I'm still getting used to the 362c. 

Stihl seems to be on a roll with the 362c, 261c, and now 462..
Liking Walnut

HolmenTree

This 73cc lightweight beast MS462CM taking on the competition reminds me of when Stihl introduced the 85cc 064AV and 71cc 044AV back in the 1980's.
The industry was turned on its head with a 14.1 lb 85cc and 12.8 lb 71cc saws. Now they're doing it again.

When Fred Whyte hired me to work for Stihl in 1989, I had the job of planting the seeds for the newly introduced 044AV in late 1988.
I passed this 044AV brochure out to every saw dealer and pro end-user I could find.
2nd pic is my own 1989 Stihl 044AV and first year 1986 064AV. 
My Yamaha bike saw in the back ground is actually older, I built it in 1983.  :D

When Hans Peter Stihl came for a board meeting visit he Christened my Yamaha when he picked it up off our work bench at our regional branch in Edmonton, Alberta.  ;D


  

  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

PNWRusty

Nice! Does the Yamahogger have a radiator?

HolmenTree

Quote from: PNWRusty on September 19, 2017, 11:04:46 AM
Nice! Does the Yamahogger have a radiator?
No radiator or water pump, only a cup or 2 of coolant in the cylinders jacket.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Thank You Sponsors!