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need help with splitter

Started by outlawcowboy, January 03, 2015, 11:35:54 AM

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outlawcowboy

I just bought a used splitter that worked great for about 6 months. Then at the beginning of the season to cut firewood my splitter would not split any wood without backing the hydraulic ram off and having to put pressure on the wood again. I have to do this 4 or 5 times before it will split anything and it never use to do that. So I changed the hydraulic pump and it is 11gpm and has a 6.5hp motor. I believe it is a 20 ton splitter although I am not 100% sure as the maker name and everything about it has worn off. When I took the old pump off only thing it had was the manufacture date and it was 5-1987. Any help would be greatly appreciated as I need to get this thing working proper again.

 
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

outlawcowboy

sorry forgot to mention after i changed the hydraulic pump it is still doing the same thing and takeing 4 or more times to get threw the wood
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

bodagocreek2

Check to see if their is a hydraulic filter. If  their is, change it. If not, put one in line.

outlawcowboy

there is no filter but i am plannin on putting one on. But that wouldnt help with haveing to cycle the ram 4 or more times before it will split a peace of wood would it?The reason i say that is because when i got the splitter it didnt matter what diamater of the log was it would split it the first time.
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

sawguy21

What is the outside temperature and what oil are you using? Maybe you need to change to a lighter grade for winter. Also, check the pickup screen in the tank, it could be clogged.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

outlawcowboy

outside temp is no colder then 32 when i am spliting and there is no screen in the tank. The hydraulic oil i am useing is AW-32
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

Jeff

Cylinder packings are bypassing. While my dual cylinders on the log turner on the mill I ran was not a wood splitter, it would behave the same way with the lack of power when the packings would get worn. The oil bypasses past them versus pushing on them. Tear them down, replace them, and they would run like new for another year or two.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

outlawcowboy

Thanks Jeff that is what i was afraid of. how Hard is it to change the packing as i have never done it before? Always willing to learn tho so looks like i will be tearing it apart and trying to figure it out.
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

Jeff

Depends on the set up I guess, but normally its not that bad, there really isnt any moving parts. First you need to get the top loose on the cylinder. Usually there are slots for a spanner, but a very big pipe wrench will do it too. Leaving it mounted if you can before you crack the top loose gives you a way to hold it while wrenching.   Once loosened then I would disconnect the hoses and take the cylinder off its mounts and remove the yoke from the shaft. Screw off the top of the cylinder and slide that up and off the shaft. You should be able to pull out the cylinder shaft. On the shaft you should see either rubber fiber or leather "boots" or "cups"  Odds are, you will see the issue at that point. A torn edge, inverted boot, something, but it might just be wore.  Usually its a matter of taking off a nut on the inside of the shaft on the other end to remove the components. 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

currantvt

I think that Jeff is on the right track though it might be worth checking the pressure relief valve before getting into the ram- could be that is stuck or a piece of carp in it, particularly as there is no filter on the system.

outlawcowboy

thanks currantvt ive looked at the pressure relief value and nothin it in i will check again tho to double check. If that aint it i will tear the ram apart like Jeff has stated and get it rebuilt. Doesnt sound to hard. there cant be much more then that since i have replaced the pump. Thanks for all the help.
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

redprospector

My old 1986 model Duerr 20 ton splitter acted the same exact way a couple of years ago. Jeff is right on the money about what was wrong with mine.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

beenthere

I'd be putting a pressure gauge in the line to see what the pump pressure is, and to verify that you are getting action from the second stage of the two stage pump. If good pressure, then dive in to the ram.

And for DanG sure, I'd get that splitter up off the ground.. to save my back. ;)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

outlawcowboy

beenthere i plan on putting a filter on it and a pressure guage. Yes i plan on getting it off the ground so it dosen't kill my back. Just have to figure out away to set up a convoyer to load the logs on and go right to the splitter once the logs are bucked for spliting and then would like another convoyer to take the split wood and drop it into a pile kinda like a processer just have to figure out how to do it for sure to make it the most effecient
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

Jeff

Be sure if and when you disassemble the cylinder to protect the shaft. If that gets nicked up it will tear on your front seal.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Gearbox

Befor you tear it apart take one hose off the cylinder and bottom it out and see if oil comes out the other end , if it is bypassing you will get ai least 1 gal. per min out of the wrong end of the cyl. the pump should shift down at 600 psi [to 1 gal per min.] Gearbox
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

outlawcowboy

thanks for all the great info its nice to finally find a site with this must knowledge and with people willing to share and help one another. Gearbox thanks i will try that before i start to take the cyl. off. Could it be that the hydraulic pump is to small?
As i stated i couldnt find anything besides a mgf date.
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

beenthere

QuoteCould it be that the hydraulic pump is to small?

You said it is a replacement of the first pump, and it is doing the same thing as the first pump.
Maybe the first pump was ok, and the problem wasn't the pump? Or did I get that wrong?
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

bill m

Your splitter is made by Brave Products, a division of Iron and Oak. I have the same splitter that I bought new in the fall of 1983.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

gfadvm

Cowboy, I have that same splitter! Mine is 40 years old and on its second motor and cylinder.  Mine did the same thing as yours and I replaced the cylinder. I took it to a hydraulic place and that's what they recommended (probably should have repacked the old one).  I like mine down low so I can roll those big rounds on it rather than lifting them.  Looks like yours has had steel guides replacing the old brass ones?

outlawcowboy

Quote from: beenthere on January 03, 2015, 07:59:32 PM
QuoteCould it be that the hydraulic pump is to small?

You said it is a replacement of the first pump, and it is doing the same thing as the first pump.
Maybe the first pump was ok, and the problem wasn't the pump? Or did I get that wrong?

yes it is a replacement pump and yes it is doin the same thing as the old pump did.


Quote from: bill m on January 03, 2015, 08:46:18 PM
Your splitter is made by Brave Products, a division of Iron and Oak. I have the same splitter that I bought new in the fall of 1983.

thanks for that info maybe that will help me find parts for it easier.
Quote from: gfadvm on January 03, 2015, 09:04:19 PM
Cowboy, I have that same splitter! Mine is 40 years old and on its second motor and cylinder.  Mine did the same thing as yours and I replaced the cylinder. I took it to a hydraulic place and that's what they recommended (probably should have repacked the old one).  I like mine down low so I can roll those big rounds on it rather than lifting them.  Looks like yours has had steel guides replacing the old brass ones?

i cant find any new cylinders for it but like i stated above i wasnt for sure what brand it was i think it would be cheaper to just have the cylinder repacked and hope that works. As for the steel guides what are you refering to as the old brass ones? and as keeping it low to the ground i agree to a point cause i get some big stuff brought to me that i cant lift. but it would be nice and not so straining on the back after a day of spliting wood
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

outlawcowboy

 


here is part of a red oak trunk, about half way up the trunk it was hollow it had be struck by lightening that made for some nice firewood. I got about 3 cords out of the trunk and branches. That is why i would like to keep it on the ground but am still in the procress of figuring a way for a "roller table" and the splitter to get off the ground
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

North River Energy

Example of blown-out piston seal:
(Fiber 'cup' seals.  Yours may look different.)


 

beenthere

Good example, and also good reason to have a hyd. oil filter so that mess doesn't get into the pump and on into the control valve.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

outlawcowboy

thanks North River Energy at least i will know what one looks like when i go to take it apart after all the other advice ive got. Start will the simpliest 1st is what i was always taught.

Beenthere i know its not hard to install a filter or pressure guage as i plan on doing just for saftey reasons and to keep that from happening in the future. But do you know if that splitter like mine had a filter on it from the MFG. The guy i bought it off of didnt know to much about it other then it was his dads and i figured i couldnt go wrong with me only paying $200 for the splitter so it could be possible that at one time it had one and they just took it off for some reason.
1999 ford F-350 7.3 diesel
1961 Massey Ferguson 65: 50hp diesel
Stihl MS391
Stihl MS192

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