Diesel Engine warmup

[polemidis]

Hello guys. I am trying to figure out the most suitable way to preheat the Detroit 353. Today it was below 32 and I couldn't start it (well my battery started to give up after 30secs of cranking and I didn't push it more). Tomorrow I will connect my car's battery to see if it will start before that battery dies too, but I doubt.

Anyway, so I do have 2 quick couplers on the coolant circuit. I read that they are used to connect to a truck so the truck will preheat the coolant and the engine. But right now I only have a small van and I do not want to to mess with it (EDIT: Unless it is something easy and straightforward to do!). Is there any device that can recirculate and warm the coolant with electricity? In my mind it looks like a simple thing but I do not know what exists in the market and what works or not.

I am planning to park the skidder next to my shed every night so such a "inline" coolant heater would be convenient! I could even put it in a timer and have the engine warm in the morning.

Any help is appreciated! Or any other ideas?
Thank you!
P.S. I am a total newbie, and my total experience with diesels and skidders is maybe 1 hour! (that much it took me to unmount and put back the starter, it got rebuilt)

[doc henderson]

wow @polemidis . you are way up north compared to me.  diesel equipment is a whole other animal.  surely you have a trucker buddy that can help you.  do you have 110 V?  I assume that is what was meant by electricity.  there are oil dipstick heater, magnetic KAT heaters that stick to metal and warm oil and cast iron.  there are inline coolant heaters with the plug you see sticking our the front.  some would not run diesel equipment in the cold, others might let it idle all night to keep warm.  think truck stops all the truck are left running.  even a trickle charger on the battery to keep it warm and ready.  I am prob. hitting the tip of the "ICEBURG" ! :D  other will chime in.  even if it starts, I would let it run 1/2 hours or the hydraulics and other components will give you fits.  starting fluid may help it hit, but do not spray a ton, and over rev. that cold tight engine.  good luck.  some foremen have rules that it has to be a certain temp or they do not run equipment.  depends on if that is an option.

[bushmechanic]

If your going to park it next to a power source, just put a block heater in it. The proper one will bolt directly into a cover in the side of the block.

[doc henderson]

you some winter additive to your fuel, and have some diesel 911 to add if it gels up.

[firefighter ontheside]

A block heater is pretty cheap and probably not hard to install.  It heats up the coolant.  For my truck I have a timer that comes on to turn on the block heater about 2 hours before I'm gonna start it in the morning.  No need to keep it warm all night.

[Oddman]

The in-block heater is the best in my opinion. Also when it's really cold a battery blanket, it's a heating pad that you install under the battery to warm it, plugs into 110v. I personally wouldn't use starting fluid. Magnetic heaters are nice for equipment that doesn't have a block heater.
I think you can buy heaters that install into the lower radiator hose, I have one but haven't installed it on anything.

[Maine logger88]

My 353 will start down to 20 or so on its own if it's colder than that I just give it some starting fluid. I did put in a block heater and if it gets below zero i bring my generator and plug it in for about 45 min it starts just like summer!

[sprucebunny]

Need to be careful with the coolant connectors ( sometimes called 'spit-swappers') because different vehicles have different coolants and additives. Block heater or inline heater are best if it will usually be near 110 volts. I keep a 3000 watt generator in my truck to run the 750 watt block heater and a battery charger for my plow truck that lives at a remote site. Have enough watts to run a couple magnetic heaters at the same time. You could put one of those on the hydraulic tank.

[Al_Smith]

Old trick if you don't want to spray ether .Use a torch to direct heat into the intake .Which is probably easier on the engine than starting fluid .On the other hand I've seen old Caterpillars with pony motor start  blow white smoke for 20 minutes before they would light off in cold weather.They just plain don't like it . 

[polemidis]

Thank you all for your replies guys!!! 
Unfortunately I do not know people in that trade, I only have google and forums   
Yes, by electricity I mean 110V.

My 353 will start down to 20 or so on its own if it's colder than that I just give it some starting fluid. I did put in a block heater and if it gets below zero i bring my generator and plug it in for about 45 min it starts just like summer!

How many seconds (minutes??) are you cranking before it starts? If I understand well it starts down to 20F with the block heater right?Is the block heater something like this ????? If so where is it installed?


I found this circulating tank heater, but it looks like its too much trouble compared to the heater I linked above (if I understood well)

So one block heater and one pad under the battery looks like will keep the machine warm enough to start.

Thank you guys!

Oh, and another stupid question. Should I press the throttle while I am cranking? 

[Southside]

Yes, your first link is to a block heater.  On the side of the block you will find freeze plugs, they look like a thin disc that is pushed into the block itself, maybe 2" in diameter, they are recessed and don't look like any other part of the block as they are stamped metal and not cast like the block.  In theory they are there to allow frozen coolant to expand and push out the plug rather than crack the block - but don't trust that to actually happen so make sure your coolant is rated for below the coldest temps you will see.  To install a block heater you simply remove one of those freeze plugs and replace it with the block heater, it will have a gasket on it and will re-seal the hole.  You will loose some coolant when you pull out the plug so have a big catch pan under the machine and have fresh coolant ready to put back in.  

The heating element half of the block heater will drop into the coolant passage and then you tighten a nut from the outside to get it to lock into place, attach the female end of the supplied cord, find a convenient spot for the male end as you will need to plug that into an extension cord and it's all done.  

Any I have ever seen have a thermostat on them so they won't overheat your engine, but if it's quite cold it might take 3 hours or so to bring all the iron on that 353 up to temp.  They make starting a diesel night and day difference in the cold and are worth having, especially on engines that don't have glow plugs.  

Even down here I have them on older pieces of equipment, saves on the starter, battery and hair line.  

[Haleiwa]

You can usually get a Detroit 2 stroker running if you take the airbox cover off of one cylinder and put a burning paper towel in it, close the cover and hit the starter.   Trailer park for sure, but it works.   That said,  those are typically about the easiest engines to start that there are,  so if it cranks and fails to start there's a good chance you aren't getting fuel,  either it gelled or the fuel filter has water frozen in it.   Does it smoke when it turns over?  If not, you aren't getting fuel and it won't start no matter how long you crank it.

[Maine logger88]

My 353 will start down to 20 or so on its own if it's colder than that I just give it some starting fluid. I did put in a block heater and if it gets below zero i bring my generator and plug it in for about 45 min it starts just like summer!

How many seconds (minutes??) are you cranking before it starts? If I understand well it starts down to 20F with the block heater right?Is the block heater something like this ????? If so where is it installed?


I found this circulating tank heater, but it looks like its too much trouble compared to the heater I linked above (if I understood well)

So one block heater and one pad under the battery looks like will keep the machine warm enough to start.

Thank you guys!

Oh, and another stupid question. Should I press the throttle while I am cranking?

No mine will start down to 20f with no block heater and no starting fluid i only crank for 15 seconds if that doesn't work I let it sit for 30seconds then try again cranking for long periods is hard on the starter. if it's between 0 and 20f it only requires a small amount of starting fluid which doesn't hurt the engine at all in my opinion. Below zero it takes a lot of starting fluid which is hard on the engine so I installed the block heater for when temps are real low. I could use it all the time but lugging a generator is a pain. Where you are near 110 it would be more convenient. The block heater goes in a hole on the right side of the engine in front of the blower there's a oval cover with 2 bolts in it drain coolent remove cover instal block heater and re fill coolent. I think mine is a zero start brand block heater I got it from Harrolds logging in Hampden. Detroit's go to full fuel when shut off so holding the throttle down doesn't help the initial start but if it's firing and then dieing you can hold the throttle down a little and it will help keep it running until the cylinder temp comes up a little. 

[Mt406]

My 317 is smaller than yours it has a block heater. When working remote I use a harbor fright 2000 watt generator in a 1/2 hr it will go from 0 to50 if you go hr it will be over 100 the problem is hyd is still 0. It's a plastic tank thinking of using a dip stick heater slid into a ele pipe with holes drilled in it I don't want to melt a hole in the tank. 
Scott 

[Ianab]

Tomorrow I will connect my car's battery to see if it will start before that battery dies too, but I doubt.

Connect the jumpers and run the car at fast idle for 15 minutes. That will put some charge back into the flat battery, so when you try and start you have 2 batteries in parallel running the starter. Might be enough to get it started? 

[mills]

Most detroits I've been around, which have been few, already had a block heater installed. Be surprised if your's doesn't. Check to see if you can find an electrical pug coming out the side of the block.

[snowstorm]

if it only has 1 car battery go buy a group 31 battery. if that will not start it its to cold to work in the woods

[polemidis]

How! Lots of info! Guys, you cannot imagine how helpful all of your comments are, for a guy that had never touched a diesel engine before.

I will check my machine today to see if I may have a plug already. 

I plan to replace the coolant, the oil, the fuel filter(s) (I think there should be 2 right?) and the oil filter so I will know where I am standing. And maybe replace some fuel lines(if they are actually fuel ones!!) that are heavily cracked. (should I clean the fuel tank too? some people say that water condenses at the bottom ???)
I just bought it last week, so I want to do a preventative maintenance first. I get a bit confused as the 353 manual does not match my 353 engine! Everything is out of place! haha. Its like a lego machine that you can mount every component whenever you want!

Slowly things get clearer to me. Last week I had not idea about anything on the diesel! 
Thanxs guys!
I will get back to you as I make some progress.

[Ed_K]

 If you don't have the block heater an decide to install one make sure the heating element ( copper loop ) doesn't touch the side of the block or internal metal parts,you can bend it carefully to do this. This will keep from burning the loop.

[Haleiwa]

 I get a bit confused as the 353 manual does not match my 353 engine! Everything is out of place! 

Do yourself a favor and get a set of service manuals from a Detroit dealer, not some aftermarket brand.  Two strokes can be set up in multiple configurations; clockwise, counterclockwise, blower on either side, camshaft on either side, pulley on either end, two or four valve heads, turbo, and many different sizes of injectors.  The manual will tell you how to adjust the fuel and valves (you will need that little depth gauge from the dealer as well).  They're actually really fun to work on once you learn to let go of rational thought.

[GRANITEstateMP]

polemidis - 

We have a Timberjack 230 with a Detroit 353.  The skidder usually lives next to an outlet.  We have an inline water type heater.  I'm pretty sure its a Katz brand, but could be wrong.  If it's given an hour or two, it'll start right up.  Gonna be honest, we did the coolant one because they had it in stock at Napa, all it took was trimming up a radiator hose to fit it!  A separate heater of some sort for the hydro's would be good, but ours isn't a production machine, so we go low and slow for the first hitch or two.

[Corley5]

Fresh batteries and a strong starter are key.  The 353s I've had had the block heater in the front side of the block.  I ran them with a 2500 watt generator in the woods.  Kats circulating heaters can be installed by removing a plate on the back of the head, drilling and welding in a pipe nipple to attach the coolant hose.

[polemidis]

Fresh batteries and a strong starter are key.  The 353s I've had had the block heater in the front side of the block.  I ran them with a 2500 watt generator in the woods.  Kats circulating heaters can be installed by removing a plate on the back of the head, drilling and welding in a pipe nipple to attach the coolant hose.

Here are 2 pics. Is any of the circles a good candidate for the block heater? If not where are they located plz?

I am not comfortable of drilling anywhere yet! Could I just use the kats circulating heaters on my existing quick couplers? I circled them with red on the pics


 

 

[OntarioAl]

The red circled quick coupler attached to a plate,
That plate is where the Detroit block heater goes.
The proper one bolts right in
Cheers
Al

[Corley5]

https://www.amazon.com/Engine-DETROIT-Engines-without-compressor/dp/B01LWRTGGL

[polemidis]

The red circled quick coupler attached to a plate,
That plate is where the Detroit block heater goes.
The proper one bolts right in
Cheers
Al

https://www.amazon.com/Engine-DETROIT-Engines-without-compressor/dp/B01LWRTGGL

Just ordered it. Thank you guys! 
Tomorrow I will start replacing filters/oil. Great great help from all of you!! Thank you!

[krusty]

I have an old IH B414 that does not like winter. Being an homebrewer, I put my banjo burner under it for 30 - 60 mins when it is -20C and that warms things up real nice :D 

No need for electricity and worst case you put a tarp on the side if the winds are strong. Warms up gear old and hyd fluid as well. Cold fluid is not happy fluid.

[Al_Smith]

I suppose you could in a bind  and tarp it over and blow heat from a kerosene salamander heater under it .It would light off eventually .
My grand dad in the late 20's ran a fleet of old liberty trucks building the US highway system in the hills of Pa .My dad,only a boy then  told of grandfather sliding a cut off barrel under them to warm them up filled with charcoal .Once the got one to fire off they pulled rest of them .These were crank start,gasoline engines with hard rubber tires .Way before my time .

[doc henderson]

my old physics professor sponsored the annual ski trip at my first college.  they would take the old vans, 3 or 4 of them, depending on the number of student participants.  in Colorado they would often not want to start in the early am.  he would go to the store and buy a bag of charcoal, and a pkg. of aluminum oven pans.  he would get the charcoal going early, and slide it under the engine, and put a blanket on the hood.  they would start up just about like summer.

[Southside]

Growing up I remember watching a guy who would light a fire under the belly pan of his skidder to get it going when it was cold out.  Of course back in the day skidders were much more open and plenty of leaves, sticks, etc would settle into the engine compartment and soak up all the old oil, diesel, and grease that was in there.  As I understood it every now and then his pre-heating procedure would also serve to clean out the engine compartment.

[thecfarm]

With my tractor I plug it in and throw an old rug over the hood and down the sides. As doc said an old blanket works too. 

[doc henderson]

my brother who was a road construction foreman, said guys whos wives knew how to make burritos and such, would bring a cooler full.  at a dollar a piece made a buck or two, and they placed them on the engine of heavy equipment to warm them up.   digin_2

[Ed_K]

 On the J.D. 850 dozer there was a pocket between the valve cover an the exhaust manifold where I could put a can of dintymoore for about 10 min. Was a nice warm lunch  .

[Al_Smith]

reminds me of the "Red Green" show . :D Turkey on the engine block and mashed potatoes in the hub caps  ,boiled eggs from the radiator . 

[doc henderson]

it seems to always elevate or degrade back to food!  

[Al_Smith]

Well some times you just have to be resourceful .I've heated a can of soup for lunch on the manifold of a Lincoln SA 200 welder .About 15 minutes is all it takes if the machine is idling .

[Corley5]

A buddy pulls a Flow Boy hauling asphalt.  He wraps his meat of choice with potatoes onions etc in aluminum foil and puts it in the front corner of the load under the tarp when he leaves the plant with the load before lunch.  It's done when he gets to the paving project.

[Al_Smith]

To cut to the chase ,let's  face the facts that old diesel's  don't like cold weather .They run okay if you can get them started but that often is no easy task .
I've seen in times past when GMC first put converted gasoline engines into diesel where in cold weather the owners just never shut them off .Early Olds diesels in cars were not much better .Got 30 MPG but took a mile to get to 60 MPH .
The newer engines with higher compression ratio start right up if the battery is good .Hammer like it's going to fall apart but once warmed up do good .

[Al_Smith]

Rambling on a tale of the past .At one time semis running the northern parts of the country had a fix.They shoe spooned  a little gasoline auto engine like a Simca tied into the diesel coolant system  and ran it just above idle to keep the temps up and assure a full charge on the battery .They said it could run all night on maybe a gallon or two of gasoline .Started right up,everything nice and toasty  in spite of 10 below zero outside .

[Corley5]

In some parts of the world modern diesels, like their ancestors, are never shut off in the coldest parts of the season.

[snowstorm]

Rambling on a tale of the past .At one time semis running the northern parts of the country had a fix.They shoe spooned  a little gasoline auto engine like a Simca tied into the diesel coolant system  and ran it just above idle to keep the temps up and assure a full charge on the battery .They said it could run all night on maybe a gallon or two of gasoline .Started right up,everything nice and toasty  in spite of 10 below zero outside .

a lot of them out there now. called a  apu and use a small diesel motor for heat and ac

[Stephen1]

food...the best was when they came out with zip top soup cans, we would put them on the manifolds of the locomotives, it saved looking for the can opener in the bottom your bag. 

[Al_Smith]

Some years ago I spent the coldest winter of my life working on 42 miles of pipeline in northern Ohio .The Caterpillar 245 excavators  and    D8 sized side boom tractors   held a couple hundred gallons of fuel and for nearly a month they were not shut down .During that event a small contractor on one of the valve sites came with an old pony start Cat  D7 3T series side boom at about 15 below .That old duffer would start after 15-20 minutes of rolling it over with the  pony and blow white smoke for another 20 with the radiator tarped over to  block the air flow  until the  engine ran right .Banged ,popped ,hiccuped like it was going to blow a rod out the bottom .Never missed a beat after it warmed up .

[polemidis]

I am making some progress!  New oil filter is going in tomorrow, as no store had it in stock.  About the oil, the manual says straight 40, other people say 10w30... I end up buying 10w30. I replaced that quick coupler with the heating element, so logically, I will not have cold-starting issues anymore. It better crank next time!

Now I am stuck with the oil filters. Its 2 right? One is strainer I read. Anyway, I could not remove them! Is there any different process than the oil filter removal?

Another question that came  to my mind: How much fuel are diesels  consuming on idle? I read that the some machines are not turned off overnight, and to me, with gasoline engine background only, in mind it sounds soo weird!!

[doc henderson]

they do not use much at idle.  many truckers leave the truck running till they get home from a run.  

[snowstorm]

it should have a low ash 30 wt in the winter 40 in summer. for 20 yrs i ran 15 40 in a 6v92. do not put 10 30 gas engine oil in it. canister oil filter? a bolt in the bottom. that would idle all day on a gallon or 2. like i said before dont use 1 little battery its hard on starters. it was meant to have 2. or 1 group 31 will work fine

[snowstorm]

they do not use much as idle.  many truckers leave the truck running till they get home from a run.  

not as much as they used to. with the anti idle laws and the new clean diesels will plug the dfp id idled to much. thats why a lot of them have an apu

[Corley5]

Don't let a Detroit sit and blubber.

[Oddman]

Rotella has a 10w30 that is made for diesels, if I remember correctly

[David-L]

All good replies, If you use either make sure the can is warm and will mist as a cold can of either will squirt and you don't want that scenario. Bring your can in at night and have it on the dash riding to work. I use to use a quick sniff of either after cranking for a few seconds down to 20 F. After that it went on the block heater. 750 or 1000 watt will do. When installing the heater make sure the copper element does not hit the sidewall of the coolant passage. I would not use either on many motors but with good batteries and cable connections and a quick sniff she should roll. the 353 is an amazing motor and will usually run till its whipped. Run it like you stole it and good luck.

[jwilly3879]

When it is subzero we bring the little Honda generator a a salamander. Let ift blow on the side of the block for 15 or 20 minutes and it is just like summer. We also replaced the Delco starter with a gear reduction starter from Masco Marine and the difference is night and day.

[polemidis]

I wasn;t able to start it today :( It doesn't make sense. 10 days ago was fine (other thatn ste starter issue). I fixed the starter to a professional shop and it works fine.
I installed the block heater and I had it on for the whole day. The block was very warm at the touch. I also replaced the oil filter and filled oil up between level marks.
I connected 2 big batteries (900+ cranking amps), but.  I does not start :(

Its a lot better than the previous days, now its kind of fires for .5 sec but it does not really start.  White smoke is coming out of the exhaust (yes I have fuel).
What could be the case?
I saw online that I have to troubleshoot of these:

Lack of air intake or restricted air intake
Broken blower shaft     
Worn out blower shaft     
Defective fuel pump     
Defective starter     
Discharged battery     
High exhaust back pressure

I assume that the starter and the batteries are not an issue. How can I test the rest, and with which should I start? Having worked the machine 10days ago make me wonder ever more  ??? ??? ???

is there any shutoff safety switch somewhere? Another thing that I had noticed is that when it was cold the oil pressure was at 50psi, but after it got warm it fell down to 5-10. I do not know if that is relevant or not

[Maine logger88]

Did you change the fuel filters? I think I remember you mentioned it. And if you did did you fill them with fuel. Also those canister filters if that's what it has can be touchy to get sealed up right and can suck air. There's also no hand primer pump so you just need to fill the canisters full of fuel before they are put on. 5-10 pounds of oil pressure is normal for a warm Detroit at idle. It is also part of the reason it's not good to idle them for extended periods

[polemidis]

Did you change the fuel filters? I think I remember you mentioned it. And if you did did you fill them with fuel. Also those canister filters if that's what it has can be touchy to get sealed up right and can suck air. There's also no hand primer pump so you just need to fill the canisters full of fuel before they are put on. 5-10 pounds of oil pressure is normal for a warm Detroit at idle. It is also part of the reason it's not good to idle them for extended periods

I hadn't figured out how to remove them, so they were intact the whole day. By the end of the day after having no clues what was going on I removed the fuel filter that is after the fuel pump because I wanted to see if it was clogged. It looks fine and clean. I will buy another one tomorrow, soak it, and fill the container before I reinstall it. 
But that was not the problem. :(

[quilbilly]

We had a kill switch on the right hand side of the motor. Eyeball height or thereabouts. Little lever, killed fuel supply.

[Maine logger88]

Ok so that's not the issue. Is there any chance your emergency shutoff got tripped?

[Mike W]

A "way out in left field thought" as I didn't see any mention of this being covered over the last day or so, have you pulled the air intake and filter box to see if there is any obstruction?  My Kubota , tractor was running just fine and always starts in cold weather, had it running a couple days ago, no issues, went to start and no go at all.  Don't usually use any either, never had the need, but tried, still no go, went to pull the filter box to give it a shot direct into the intake and over the course of overnight or a day, a pack-rat had moved in and took residence as his own, not sure where he obtained all the debris that was in there, but it happened in the course of a day or so, doesn't take long for those critters to jamb things up tight.  Just a rambling thought!!

[snowstorm]

bolt in the bottom of the canasiter holds the filter. i used to replace the filter then fill it by removing one of the plugs. where are you in maine?

[polemidis]

Ok so that's not the issue. Is there any chance your emergency shutoff got tripped?

We had a kill switch on the right hand side of the motor. Eyeball height or thereabouts. Little lever, killed fuel supply.

Yes!. I think that was it! I will replace the fuel filter since I opened it anyway and I will try again. I am pretty sure that is it! You guys rock!!

bolt in the bottom of the canasiter holds the filter. i used to replace the filter then fill it by removing one of the plugs. where are you in maine?

I am in Winthrop.  I didn't understand what you say snowstorm :(. I removed the fuel filter be loosening the bolt on top of the canister not the bottom. I do not know what the bottom bolt does. Maybe to drain any water?


Btw, since you are not bored from my newbie questions yet : : :
a) On the panel, I have 2 levers that I can pull. One is the "emergency" shut off. But thats the only way to shut the machine off. Should it be another way too? 
b) The other lever goes to the top of the governor and connects to a spring. The other end of the spring mounts to the exhaust manifold. what it that doing? I can take a picture if I sound confusing.

[Al_Smith]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned or not. For various reasons some times the fuel injection  pump can loose a prime .It can't move fuel by pumping air.I'm not certain what the procedure is for priming a GMC 71 series is but that might be a starting place .

My dad had a motor home with a 300 HP Cummins that would loose a prime after sitting a couple of months .He was in his 80's at the time .To help him out I bled the system one injector at a time laying on top of that big engine while running that was under the bed in rear  .It got a tad warm before I finished .The engine was still under warranty and come to  find out it was caused by a faulty check valve and was under a recall .That fixed the problem .
Good heavens that big diesel must have been 5- 6 feet long and produced 1680 foot pounds of torque and run ,mercy .I drove it back from central Florida to Ohio and it walked up Jellico pass on  I-75 with ease at 85 MPH .

[Al_Smith]

One more point ,again I'm not familiar with a GMC diesel .However if the system uses a transfer pump and if that pump is not supplying fuel under pressure to the injector pump that will cause problems also .Found that out on an old D4 Caterpiller that is older than me .It was brand new in 1943 I was brand new in 1948 .

[Maine logger88]

If you pulled the emergency shutoff did you reset the blower flap? If not that's why it won't start. The cable that goes to the governor housing is the correct one to shut the machine off

[snowstorm]

that old 2 stroke uses a gear transfer pump should make 65 psi. but if it isnt full of fuel it will not pump. one trick is blow air into the tank till it picks it up. they dont have an injection pump use unit injectors and that is what makes the high pressure

[polemidis]

If you pulled the emergency shutoff did you reset the blower flap? If not that's why it won't start. The cable that goes to the governor housing is the correct one to shut the machine off

That was the issue! It works! I actually took it for a ride!!! Amazing!!!
I think have to put an extra set of ear protection in the cabin though.... These days that I was logging in the peace in the forest are behind me. hahaha

Articulation is sooo weird! It will take me a while to get used to. 

[polemidis]

More questions! 
Rpm at idle??
And how should I work the machine? Throttle to the floor????? I read some comments suggesting that...

What gauges are important to have? The only one that works is the oil pressure. Engine rpm? (fuel canister pressure maybe?)
The coolant temp gauge needs replacement is faulty. 

[Maine logger88]

Run it at what rpms you need Detroit's do like to rev and they run best wide open but they don't have to be. It is better not to lug them down not that you really can they will stall easily lol. only thing I try to do is not let them idle for long periods better to either set the hand throttle up a little if you have one or shut it off rather than let it idle more than 10 or 15 min. Mostly because Un burnt fuel will wash oil off cylinders but also cause Detroit's don't build much oil pressure at idle. Only gauges I'd worry about are oil pressure coolent temp and amp/voltmeter 

[KamHillbilly]

On the Detroit 3-53 there is a water jacket plate on the side of the block , I used Kats model 30301 very easy install as someone else mentioned make sure heating coil loop doesn't hit block in water jacket

[jd540b]

Btw, since you are not bored from my newbie questions yet : : :
a) On the panel, I have 2 levers that I can pull. One is the "emergency" shut off. But thats the only way to shut the machine off. Should it be another way too?
b) The other lever goes to the top of the governor and connects to a spring. The other end of the spring mounts to the exhaust manifold. what it that doing? I can take a picture if I sound confusing.


One is to shut  the machine off (kills fuel supply).
The other "emergency" is if the motor starts to run away-that one shuts a spring loaded flap in the blower and kills air supply. If you pulled that one it won't start until you manually reset it.

[jd540b]

Btw, since you are not bored from my newbie questions yet : : :
a) On the panel, I have 2 levers that I can pull. One is the "emergency" shut off. But thats the only way to shut the machine off. Should it be another way too?
b) The other lever goes to the top of the governor and connects to a spring. The other end of the spring mounts to the exhaust manifold. what it that doing? I can take a picture if I sound confusing.
[/quote]

One is to shut  the machine off (kills fuel supply).
The other "emergency" is if the motor starts to run away-that one shuts a spring loaded flap in the blower and kills air supply. If you pulled that one it won't start until you manually reset it.

[Al_Smith]

I reread the original post where it said slightly below 32 degrees temp .I should think that if it won't start it should at least be puffing white smoke .If not sounds to me it's not getting fuel or the air is shut off .Takes both .

[quilbilly]

Water temp gauge and oil pressure are definitely the most important, I second that. I blew a rebuilt motor that only had about 600 hours bc of a faulty water temp gauge.

[polemidis]

Today  I had the WEIRDEST problem.... I drove (should I say "piloted"???haha) the skidder up into my forest when suddenly it stalled. What, I restarted it, move a bit, stalled again. I tried with more throttle, the same. I was not having hard time, just stalled. Long story short, it stalled every time I turned the steering wheel towards right. Only right. Left turn was ok. What to do? I was not gonna let the machine up there, so I managed to do some quick short right-turn hits, and I was returning the steering wheel to neutral before it completely shut off. 
What, I had no clue. Nothing made sense. Until I inspect under the hood.. Any guesses????????????  The problem was that the cable that turns off the machine (the one that goes to the governor) was caught up to the lever that moves the directional valve!! Unbelievable...

Anyway, I  put a zip tie and tied it with some other wires. I will put a temp gauge asap.


I still wonder how you different you log with the skidder. Is anyone using it to push the trees to the direction he wants? It sounds so unsafe but I think someone told me that he utilizes the front blade to push trees that are leaning sideways, so that they all fall towards the same direction, which makes skidding faster. It just do not sound safe to me. Your thoughts guys?

[Southside]

I still wonder how you different you log with the skidder. Is anyone using it to push the trees to the direction he wants? It sounds so unsafe but I think someone told me that he utilizes the front blade to push trees that are leaning sideways

I am not going to say I have never done that, but you are correct - it is very unsafe.  So many things can go wrong there, stress in the tree, breaking the hinge with the tree vertical, machine moves, tree rolls and goes plain wrong.  Best to not go there.  

[mills]

"I still wonder how you different you log with the skidder. Is anyone using it to push the trees to the direction he wants? It sounds so unsafe but I think someone told me that he utilizes the front blade to push trees that are leaning sideways, so that they all fall towards the same direction, which makes skidding faster. It just do not sound safe to me. Your thoughts guys?"

Fairly common practice... but can be very dangerous if everyone involved doesn't know what exactly what everyone else is doing. Actually pulling with the winch is better if it can be done, but a lot of times you can't get the skidder in the right position to pull a tree. Pushing trees is not a practice that you can jump right in on, but something you can work up to as you get more experience. Main thing is to know your skidder. Learn what it's capable of, and what it's limits are. You have to understand which trees can be pushed, and which ones need to pulled with the winch. Hinge wood is very critical for pushed and pulled trees. Too little and you risk breaking the tree off at the stump, too much and the skidder can't overcome the resistance. Rotten and hollow trees don't get pushed or pulled. 

[Maine logger88]

I push trees with the skidder every day lol. but there are many precautions to take while doing so and done right is very safe. On trees with a dead top I always just cripple enough fiber so it will go with a saw and shove it with the skidder that way I'm not standing at the base of the trees trying to pound wedges with a dead top over my head. My skidders have never wore a tree that I have personally cut yet... but They have worn some trees that I went to push that others have cut back when I had a faller. Basically if your not comfortable with it don't do it but if you are it can make things easier 

[polemidis]

Ok thank you guys.I am one man operation. I think I will start slow with healthy trees and a bit wider wedge than normal. if the skidder cannot push it, i will just cut a little more. And if it gets as thin as I usually fell without the skidder I will just take it down with the wedges.

Good thing I found a guy with a skidder that is willing to allow me to cut a couple of hitches with him so I will get the idea.
I really cant wait the ground to freeze to start working

Thank you all!

[Al_Smith]

 What,everybody forgets about a rope ? Couple years back I flopped a 100 foot dead white oak that was slowly loosing it' s top .I used a 1" nylon rope with a snatch block in the tree through a redirect with another snatch .Hooked to a Ferguson tractor 150 feet away pulling 90 degrees from the fall.I got pictures of it .
Might sound like it's not really the way to do it but it was safe .For that matter I've seen pictures Gerry B had of pulling big coast red woods with a D8 Caterpillar .Same deal  only larger .If it's cut right it's going to fall the way  the hinge point directs  it to .--more->

[Al_Smith]

From my perspective on a dead tree is you take a chance of jarring what's in the top to come loose by pounding wedges .Then you have a couple hundred pounds raining down on you .You shove it over the top could break out on the fall then gravity takes over .Roped,far enough away and out of the line of fire is much safer if in doubt ,works for me . In the previous post the top did break out on the fall when I pulled it as I suspected it might .

[Randy88]

We ran a 3-53 detroit for years in a trencher, got tired of the either cans and put a Hilton cordless heater on it, hooked up a 20lb lp tank on it and it would heat the engine for a week around the clock to keep it warm.    Takes about 20 amps for a few minutes to heat the catalyst and once hot, it would only take a few milliamps of power to run the valve to keep lp to the heater.    

We'd start the heater with the engine running and once the heater was hot, shut the engine off and come back the next day, a few days later or a week later and unless it ran the lp tank empty, the engine was warm and ready to start, no matter how cold out if was.  

Repowered it with a cummins and now it starts down to and below zero, so we really haven't used the heater much since then, only if its really cold out and we're still working.  

[retiredmechanic]

everything is fairly well covered by the comments but I will add a TIP in nasty cold days if it is showing signs of struggle take a hose, pipe, whatever you can find and hook one end to your truck, car exhaust pipe and the other ned up under the engine then find something to make a makeshift wall around the sides trapping the heat in to warm everything up works great especially when there is no 110 to access another point is don't use long cranking cycles start with short bursts to get the fluids circulating, oil and fuel as for ether Caution is advised LESS IS MORE I have seen guys blow the heads off diesels seriously but a short blast after you have cranked it several times in short bursts the ear is your friend if you hear knocking STOP the ether spray that knocking is the pistons slamming I like ether in the extreme cold but it takes some wisdom to use I have even built bonfires in the snow right in front of stubborn equipment to help heat the air up 1 more tip a charger with a "booster" charge setting is great 

I learned these tricks when in the Army recovering Tanks in the Frozen Kansas Tank trails and 20 years of heavy equipment repair for Komatsu, link belt, Grove, Ingersoll Rand dealership (Kirby Smith Machinery) as field Mechanic 

[barbender]

I find that ether tends to knock like that from a cold can- I don't think it vaporizes. I keep a can in the cab of the truck, and it works way better.

[doc henderson]

use caution if a friend offers to help.  I have a buddy and he started driving semi trucks.  I ran out of fuel in my drive.  new 60 gallon tank and the sending unit is not perfect with it, and on a slope the fuel can run to one end (8 feet long between the frame rails).  he said he knows all about it, but he kept spraying after it started and I thought it was going to rap it out too high.  so little squirts/sprays.  I should have put him on the key end.  all turned out ok.