Silly Questions

bandmiller2 · January 16, 2015, 08:10:11 AM

Any mill is best set up plumb and level, bandmills will cut decent lumber if not level but will work better level. Its pure poison to have a circular mill not set up level. All mills if adjusted properly will cut good lumber. If you sight down a cantilever style mill the head will dip very slightly as it enters a log the adjustment compensates for this and you end up with accurate lumber. Frank C.

terrifictimbersllc · January 16, 2015, 08:31:23 AM

I have a WMLT40. Like to have just slightly tilted higher on the loading side but only a fraction of a bubble not even 1/4. Makes it just a bit easier with logs tending to roll or slide to the stops all day rather than the other way, and I think a bit more forceful on the debarker. At the outset of some setups where the loading side is much higher at the beginning and the head is high, I can indeed see that there is a balance point for the head tilting down toward the loader, vs tilting up the other way, but I don't think this matters given the force of the blade pulling in the wood which would surely overcome it within reason, pulling the head down or the mast to the right, same difference. Nevertheless I like it better when the mill isn't tilted this much.

Regarding fine adjust, I use a bucket of 6x6 shims 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 plywood mostly together with a small collection of larger boards. Regarding setup procedure, my approach is always the same, I think first of the front 3 outriggers defining a plane as 3 points indeed do. The two front outriggers on the beam and The one on the loading side. First I set a level on the front bunk to get an idea of the sideways tilt. Then I jack the front up, and decide how far down to drop the second outrigger on the beam, so that when I bring the head forward the weight will be shifted somewhat off of the drive side tire. Then look at the level and decide where to set the loading side front outrigger so when the weight comes forward, the mill will be only a bit higher on the loader side. Then I put the level on the main tube and decide how to set the front outrigger. Then bring the head up to the front and if I got it right the mill is level front to back and side to side, resting on these 3 feet. Shim if necessary but get it right. Very easy to shim just put the head back and use the right shim, I carry 1/4-1" boards some of them 6x6 some of them longer. The set the back supports, sighting the main rail for straightness by eye when setting the ones on the beam. Usually on my mill I am jacking up the last one about half a click to take out the crown. I can cut 20' beams within 1/8" or less dimensional difference end to end with this procedure.

I don't think it would be much faster on the setup with FAOs, but adjusting for a shifting mill or sinking in during the day, would be faster with the FAOs. It took me longer to write this than the setup usually takes.

4x4American · January 16, 2015, 11:16:22 PM

^^I bet it did take longer to write that than to set up mill!

Foxtrapper · January 18, 2015, 10:25:21 AM

Quote from: 4x4American on January 15, 2015, 08:52:12 AM
Quote from: Foxtrapper on January 14, 2015, 11:06:53 PM
Quote from: 4x4American on January 14, 2015, 10:21:56 PM
Silly me, I asked a silly question in a silly way. What I meant to ask, is why doesn't the frame have to be leveled side to side to saw accurate lumber? They put some crude jacks on the WM instead of fine adjust ones, meaning that it don't have to be finely adjusted to saw accurate lumber. Curious why that is, just don't seem right that the frame can be all cattywampus and saw straight lumber.

I was told that when you level the band to the bed you have the idle side set 1/8" higher than drive side to account for the inertial effect of the band. That was on a lt40 super.

Not sure I can answer this silly question, but i'll try anyways. The mill doesn't need to be leveled side to side because the head only travels on one rail. Unlike a four post head that travels on both rails, so it needs to be level side to side to get accurate cuts.. ;D

Say the idle side is lower by a bit, wouldn't the head be higher than it's 1/8" spec on the idle side then?

It can be, but when I set up, I try to get it to set kinda level. I am more concerned by front to back than side to side. If it is too unlevel front to back, the head tends to move on it's own, which isn't good. So I always set it to keep head travel close to level. The other thing which has been pointed out is having the load side slightly higher than the log stops, so that most logs will roll onto the mill. Makes life much easier. I have found that wm setup is much quicker than a four post mill, but it only really matters if your doing custom on sight milling a lot. If your set stationary, doesn't really make a lot of difference..

terrifictimbersllc · January 18, 2015, 11:19:32 AM

Quote from: 4x4American on January 14, 2015, 10:21:56 PM
Silly me, I asked a silly question in a silly way. What I meant to ask, is why doesn't the frame have to be leveled side to side to saw accurate lumber? They put some crude jacks on the WM instead of fine adjust ones, meaning that it don't have to be finely adjusted to saw accurate lumber. Curious why that is, just don't seem right that the frame can be all cattywampus and saw straight lumber.

I was told that when you level the band to the bed you have the idle side set 1/8" higher than drive side to account for the inertial effect of the band. That was on a lt40 super.

Not sure if you still have this question.. The 1/8 is not 1/8 but 1/16 for alignment of a Woodmizer cantilever mill. This 1/16 is referring to the difference in distance from the band to the rails, 1/16 higher on the outside than on the inside (the inside being that against the stops). The 1/16 has nothing to do with level (as in level to the ground, a bubble level). Setting up the mill so that the bunks are level to the ground, one side slightly higher than the other or not, with respect to level, within reason, has nothing to do with cutting accurate lumber. Not talking about setting up the mill at 30 degrees to level where it is about ready to tip over which any mill could if the head is raised high, at that angle. When the head on the properly aligned mill is spinning the band, the band will be parallel to the bunks regardless of whether the setup has the bunks level or not.

4x4American · January 18, 2015, 05:18:44 PM

Thanks for all the responses!

Now since no one else has asked another silly question...I'll go for it.
How can I check the tilt on my bandwheels? (not tracking I can adjust that fine) I watched the Cook's AC-36 videos and Tim Cook was saying that they found that having the top tilted forward about 3/32" (I think was it) was about perfect. Wanted to check mine, but don't see in the manual the proper way to check/adjust it. I won't go by measuring off the guards, as I've hit it on the log lifts a couple times...

While I'm at it, does anyone on here roll their blades? If so how often?

Thanks,
Doug

Tom the Sawyer · January 18, 2015, 05:52:37 PM

Are they the same wheels? Crowned steel wheels vs. belted wheels. Dimensions are also highly dependent on wheel size. I think the band should ride in the same location on both of your wheels, check with Jason or Mike @ TK.

4x4American · January 18, 2015, 06:33:10 PM

They are the same belted wheels on both side. It is tracking fine.

Foxtrapper · January 18, 2015, 06:42:25 PM

Most mills I have looked at have had the wheels even with each other, so the band rides the same on both wheels. Don't know if it makes a difference though..

Dave Shepard · January 18, 2015, 07:09:27 PM

The relationship of each wheel needs to be such that the band rides correctly on both wheels. Once the band rides where it is supposed to, then the wheels are in alignment.

Tom the Sawyer · January 18, 2015, 09:18:13 PM

Doug,

I know both of your wheels are the same, what I meant was that the wheels Tim Cook was talking about may have been crowned steel wheels (not belted wheels) and they may require a different alignment that a belted wheel (yours) would.

4x4American · January 19, 2015, 07:51:48 AM

Quote from: Tom the Sawyer on January 18, 2015, 09:18:13 PM
Doug,

I know both of your wheels are the same, what I meant was that the wheels Tim Cook was talking about may have been crowned steel wheels (not belted wheels) and they may require a different alignment that a belted wheel (yours) would.

Good point there Tom. I am curious as to how they measured it so that the top part of the wheels are 3/32" forward. Reckon I could call and ask Tim himself.

ladylake · January 19, 2015, 08:16:06 AM

You head drive chain may have slipped a cog or 2 on one side, just loosen get it square and tighten back up. No harm running it like that. To measure the tilt of the wheels a T square off the bed up to the wheels would work . Steve

ladylake · January 19, 2015, 08:38:48 AM

Quote from: 4x4American on January 15, 2015, 09:00:14 AM
Quote from: Sawyer697 on January 15, 2015, 08:54:50 AM
I went and brought a 2" bubble that is mounted to the frame up front, out of the way. Then when I set up I like to have the round bubble pretty well centered. :

ok. so would a mizer fare better on uneven ground then, because of the cantilevered head?

No, all mills need to be supported on both ends , both sides and the middle and WM offers fine adjust jacks which is good rather than shimming up the old style. Steve

Hilltop366 · January 19, 2015, 08:58:44 AM

Quote from: 4x4American on January 18, 2015, 05:18:44 PM

Now since no one else has asked another silly question...I'll go for it.
How can I check the tilt on my bandwheels? (not tracking I can adjust that fine) I watched the Cook's AC-36 videos and Tim Cook was saying that they found that having the top tilted forward about 3/32" (I think was it) was about perfect. Wanted to check mine, but don't see in the manual the proper way to check/adjust it. I won't go by measuring off the guards, as I've hit it on the log lifts a couple times...

I have seen that too, I am wondering why and the only reason I can think of is to put pressure on the front of the blade where it contacts the guides so that although the front of the blade is tilted down the guides bring it back up to level and would make the front of the blade less likely to lift off the guide during a cut.

Does that sound correct?

Seeing how this is all in relation to the log bed one way I can think of to check would be to put a square on the bed and up against the band wheels, if the band wheel is tilted down there would be a gap in between the square and the bottom of the wheel.

4x4American · January 19, 2015, 07:03:12 PM

Quote from: ladylake on January 19, 2015, 08:16:06 AM

You head drive chain may have slipped a cog or 2 on one side, just loosen get it square and tighten back up. No harm running it like that. To measure the tilt of the wheels a T square off the bed up to the wheels would work . Steve

On one job, a piece of popple bark got into the track and gummed up sprocket and kicked the chain off the sprocket. That's proberly when it happened. I thought that it was supposed to be like that on purpose!

4x4American · January 19, 2015, 07:05:10 PM

Next silly question:

Why is lumber shipped from the west and the south to here, and vice versa? That seems like a lot of wasted money in trucking and time and could possibly transport bugs if it's shipped green

Ga Mtn Man · January 19, 2015, 07:57:35 PM

Quote from: Hilltop366 on January 19, 2015, 08:58:44 AM

I have seen that too, I am wondering why and the only reason I can think of is to put pressure on the front of the blade where it contacts the guides so that although the front of the blade is tilted down the guides bring it back up to level and would make the front of the blade less likely to lift off the guide during a cut.

Does that sound correct?

Seeing how this is all in relation to the log bed one way I can think of to check would be to put a square on the bed and up against the band wheels, if the band wheel is tilted down there would be a gap in between the square and the bottom of the wheel.

You are almost correct. It puts more pressure on the back of the band which, in theory, should make the band less likely to climb in the cut. In theory.

Hilltop366 · January 19, 2015, 08:47:38 PM

GMM thanks for setting me straight, for some reason I was picturing the guides under the blade in my mind :

instead of on top pushing down.

4x4American · January 29, 2015, 07:56:04 PM

So...any thoughts on why the big box stores like Home Depot and Lowes here in NYS sell Doug Fir, Sitka Spruce, and Southern Yellow Pine and not Balsam Fir, Eastern (red, white, black) Spruce, and Eastern White Pine?

Dave Shepard · January 29, 2015, 08:01:44 PM

Because none of the framing lumber they sell is sourced locally. In 2008 at work we renovated an 1830's house. Two or three times a week my coworker would get a bunch of framing lumber for whatever we were up to that day, and none of it came from North America. Much of it was from Sweden, but also Germany and the Czech Republic. I don't think timber is grown in the Northeast like it is in other parts of the world, and we probably couldn't compete with the huge mills that produce framing lumber.

4x4American · January 29, 2015, 08:11:32 PM

I am opposed to all of the overseas trading.

How did the EAB get here?

How did the chesnut blight get here in the early 1900s?

Dutch Elm disease.. etc etc

I don't get why they don't source local framing lumber.

I'm sure the US could compete with their sawmills if it came down to it.

DMcCoy · January 30, 2015, 04:30:28 PM

There are some high volume mills out here. The millwrights will adjust the knees on head rigs frequently because if they can save an extra buck or two per thousand board feet and they run 200,000- 300,000+ feet a day it adds up. It is common to see lumber with bandsaw marks after it has been through a planer, the tolerances are that tight.
I have not been east since I was forced into adulthood. The pictures I see of your forests it is very different than here in Oregon. I wonder if your soils have been depleted by extra centuries of human habitation. Here we can get 4' of leader growth and 1" diameter per year. The mono crop plantation way they grow these now is different. I suspect we will deplete our soil here over time.