Woodland Mills tracking problems

[Southwood]

Anyone having tracking problems with the Woodland Mills HM126 mill? My tracking goes off just running the motor & not cutting any wood. I adjust the tracking the way it is supposed to be set up & after about 20 seconds of running the motor, the tracking will be way off. The blade moves backwards. I have done everything tech support has told me & nothing has worked. I am stumped by this & so is their tech support. I tore the tracking cover off & examined it & everything looks good. The welds are good & everything is tight. I have had problems with the tracking since I bought the mill & it has gotten a lot worse, now I can't even cut a log without ruining my guide rollers. So far I have had to replace a throttle cable, clutch, on & off switch, belts, rollers, & guides. Anyone with any ideas would be appreciated, as I am very frustrated & out of ideas. The only good news is it's still under warranty since it is not very old. Maybe they can swap it out, but until than I'm stuck & unable to do any milling.

[Darrel]

Wish I could help.

[york]

Cooks has a very good video ,that could help you,it on youtube,go look....

Another vid...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bq8YZEuXj8

[Jeff]

Have you tried putting a different new bade on? If there is something wrong with the blade, you'll never get it to track.

[Southwood]

Have tried several blades

[Southwood]

Have watched the video several times before posting my problem.

[Sawmill Man]

 Instead of spinning the blade with the engine try turning by hand slowly while under full tension and watch it. Adjust accordingly.

[Ox]

That's way too much to go wrong with a new mill.  It's still under warranty - you need to be in good communication with the makers of that machine and get this straightened out.  It might be a lemon.  If your tracking goes off like you said I would think a bearing is faulty.

Just random thoughts - maybe something will help.

[Southwood]

I start out spinning the wheel by hand & all is good. It's when the blade runs at speed is when the tracking goes off. It will go all the way back until it hits the guide rollers. I also think it is too many problems for a new mill. I talk with the techs at woodland mills daily & have sent videos. I also feel it could be a bad mill & a lemon. With everything being mass produced, it is a possibility.

[Ox]

I'm under the impression that Woodland Mills is a great manufacturer and are well in tune with the customer from reading alot of past posts.  There are lots of happy customers with these guys.  Judging from reviews and what I've read with comments I'm confident that Woodland Mills will rectify your situation.  Waiting a bit to get things straightened out can be frustrating when you're chomping at the bit but it will be all better in just a little while and you'll forget all about it. 

[fishfighter]

I would start checking the wheel bearing. On the tension adjuster, you have the new spring washers? Did you torque the tension adjustment to 25 FP's?

Do keep us updated. Really sorry you are having this problem, Own the same mill 2+ years. Woodland just sent me the replacement spring washers for free.

[Southwood]

Replaced the bearings already. I'm running out of parts to replace. Woodland Mills sent me the new washers & they are already installed. I do torque them to 25 lbs & have used 2 torque ratchets, to rule out a bad ratchet. I will say the washers are a lot better than the old poly ones.

[Jeff]

I'm still wondering about the blades. Far more likely to get a funky batch of blades than for something so mysteriously wrong with the mill you can't find it. A woodland mill is a simple machine compared to a car or tractor or something. Not something complicated enough that could be a "lemon".

[Southwood]

I have tried 2 different manufacturers blades. I bought a pack of 10 from Woodland Mills along with the sharpener when I bought the mill.  With all my problems I haven't had time to use the sharpener so I bought a 5 pack from another vendor.

[Kbeitz]

Blades or belts... All track the same...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oowVLGSQxmw

[Hilltop366]

I notice he says 35 foot pounds in the video.

[goose63]

Southwood I've had the same mill as you for four year's the olny time I have trouble with tracking is when I change brands of blades.

Where do you live ? if your not to far away maybe I can have a look at it for you.

Like Jeff said it's a simpel machine and it has to be a simpel fix

[Kbeitz]

I would start by putting a long straight edge on the rim of each wheel
and see if they both line up with each other.

[grouch]

After you check the wheels as Kbeitz suggested, check the bolts holding the engine down. Check the pulley on the engine.

You said it tracks when you turn by hand but gets progressively worse as the engine runs. Sounds like the engine or its pulley move in relation to the wheel it's driving.

[Jeff]

Sometimes things can be so simple they never occur to you. Back in 1985 we put in a new commercial cmc mill. For the next year we fought the problem of burning out one of the pillow bearings on the shaft we installed to drive the hydraulic pump. we did everything we could to align in, and every couple weeks burned up a a 100 dollar bearing. The light finally went on the last time it went out. When putting the shims back under the bearing for probably the 20 time, I noticed something. the shim stock was shorter than the bearing case and this type of bearing had a hollow base with a lip on the edges. Every time we torqued down the bearing, we warped the bearing housing, putting a bind on the bearing. I cut a new shim longer than the base and that bearing was still running when I left the mill in 2005.   

Simple things can be overlooked very easily.

[york]

There is nothing wrong with this mill-it is out smarting you,you are missing something-you may need help from a FF member.....

[clintnelms]

Have you changed the drive belt out to a Gates Belt? I had a tracking problem and found it was the belt I swapped out that came in my parts kit. It was a little thinner than the Gates belt that was originally on it and the blade would ride on the metal wheel instead of the belt. Took me forever to figure that one out.

[Southwood]

I have replaced the belt but am not sure of the brand. It was the belt that came in my maintenance kit. I may be missing something, but you would think woodland mills tech people would have thought of it to. I have replaced both belts, bearings, & blades & nothing has corrected it. Could it be possible the band wheel itself is bad?

[pineywoods]

Not sure about the woodland mill, I think there are 2 bearings in each bandwheel. If one of the bearings is loose and the other one normal, it can cause a lot of grief. Tension blade and adjust tracking in both directions while turning wheels manually. Then increase the tension. If tracking changes, bandwheel bearings likely the problem. Been there, done that on a woodmizer..Change both bearings...

[qbilder]

I have replaced the belt but am not sure of the brand. It was the belt that came in my maintenance kit. I may be missing something, but you would think woodland mills tech people would have thought of it to. I have replaced both belts, bearings, & blades & nothing has corrected it. Could it be possible the band wheel itself is bad?

Yes it could be a faulty wheel. The only time I have ever had the issue you describe, it was a blade guide bearing that would get warm and start locking up. At low speed or the first few seconds, it would track perfectly. A few seconds spinning at cutting speed, the bearing would lock, thus putting drag on & slowing the guide. With one guide spinning at speed and the other slower, the blade would creep back. Unfortunately I never figured it out until the grooves began forming on the guide where the blade was running against it full friction as I milled logs.       

[Slingshot]

  One of the Band Wheels out of balance or a little warped?





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[fishfighter]

I notice he says 35 foot pounds in the video.

With the new spring washers, Woodland said 25 FP.

[Southwood]

Well may have figured it out. Woodland mills tech said I was taking too much tension off when adjusting the tracking. I took a quarter turn backwards once I had it torqued to 25 lbs & made my adjustments & it worked so far. Who would of thought it? So far I have milled 7 logs today & all was good. I figured as long as tracking was adjusted & checked at 25 lbs torque it would make no difference, but apparently it does. Thanks everyone for your input, I appreciate it.

[Darrel]

Good to hear that your mill is up and running! 

[fishfighter]

Happy to hear you are up and sawing. Yes, one has to have full tension when adjusting everything.

[Sawmill Man]

 Didnt someone recommend that back in reply #6?

[thecfarm]

I have a Thomas and to adjust the tracking on mine,when I change a blade,I spin it by hand and when it tracks off, I adjust one side a little and spin it again. I know which bolt to adjust to get it to track right. I adjust it until it runs true. Only takes me a minute to get it right. Took me longer about 15 years ago.  ;D  Than I start to motor and run it slowly for a few seconds and I know I am good to go.

[york]

Yes you did,Sawmill man....

Key word full tension....

[paul case]

Glad you are sawing Southwind.

One thing about the FF is the experience here is invaluable and the guys here are really encouraging and helpful.

I guess that is 3.

PC

[Sawmill Man]

 On a lot of mills increasing blade tension does more than stretching the band tight. The saw head can flex and twist with different amounts of tension which affects tracking. The weaker the design of the sawhead or the wider the throat the more severe the change.

[Briankinley2004]

It's easy to overlook stuff. The manual or video or both say to let tension off only slightly as there is some bolt in there that needs tension but not full to work properly. Another thing I missed initially is to back the guides off when doing tracking so they don't push on band.  Glad you found the problem

[fishfighter]

I have a Thomas and to adjust the tracking on mine,when I change a blade,I spin it by hand and when it tracks off, I adjust one side a little and spin it again. I know which bolt to adjust to get it to track right. I adjust it until it runs true. Only takes me a minute to get it right. Took me longer about 15 years ago.  ;D  Than I start to motor and run it slowly for a few seconds and I know I am good to go.

This is the same way I adjust my 126. ;D

[Southwood]

I am still having tracking problems, there suggestion has only worked for 1 day of sawing. It is really frustrating when you have so much time & money invested to make no progress. As luck has it my warranty was up last week & today I think I have found the problem. The threads of the tracking bolt & nut that it screws into are flattened & stripped (not sure why they didn't use a higher grade nut & bolt). The nut is welded to the carriage & cant be replaced or fixed without major fabrication. Anyone ever have this problem & if so how did you fix it? I'm gonna call woodland mills in the morning to see if it will be covered by warranty since it only ran out last week & that this has been an ongoing problem since day one. My last question is should the blade be sitting level? Mine has always had a backwards tilt. Changing the vertical tracking has no affect on the blade. Since I have had the mill I have had to replace wheel bearings, throttle cable, clutch, on & off switch, several drive belts, bearings & rollers, & way too many blades for very little saw time.

[fishfighter]

That is a lot of parts you changed. My 126 is going on three years next month. Only belts and one set of guide blade bearing have been change on mine in that time.

[Novascotiamill]

Any chance you can post a pic of which bolt and nut is damaged,id like to see if its the same serup on my hm130. Sorry about your badluck with the mill. Any time ive talked with the staff there they have been excellant,im sure they will be able to help you out.

[Southwood]

Here are some pics.

[clintnelms]

I had that happen with mine once and I just replaced the bolt and was good to go. If the nut is messed up too then you'll have to weld a new nut in its place. Are you backing the tension off when you adjust the tracking? If not, then that's what caused them to strip out.

[Hilltop366]

Drill and re-tap to the next size up bolt or thread insert?

[Southwood]

I'm backing the tension off a half turn. That is what the tech at woodland mills told me.

[Den-Den]

A torque measurement is worthless when the threads are buggered up.  That will have to be fixed before you can use torque to adjust blade tension.

[Southwood]

Yea I understand that. I have a welder coming this week to weld that nut. I'm gonna upgrade to grade 8 nut & bolts, instead of the cheaper grade ones that came with it. I figure since it has to be redone that I should use better materials. It's only a few dollars more. I just hope this has been my whole problem all along & that this will get me up & running finally. 2 years of problems is a long time. I should of already had my Workshop built a year & a half ago.

[clintnelms]

I can imagine, but I'll bet this will fix your problem.

[Kbeitz]

A drop of oil on the threads will change the torque measurement.
Grade 8 bolts will gall up just as easy. The wide nuts like I posted
will out last all the others and they are much easier to weld on.
Using never seize will help the galling.

[drobertson]

Copper coat is good, moly grease too, I'm thinking once you get it tracking, there really should be no more adjusting? I'd be sure to use a looking jam but,

[Hilltop366]

Welding will distort the threads some, I usually run a tap through them after welding.

[Southwood]

I have been looking for those wide nuts, but can not get any where I live. I have looked everywhere here. I'm pretty rural & not much around here. I even went to the city yesterday, but had no luck. I would order online, but welder will be here Friday. If I were to even find one, my next problem is getting a longer all thread bolt to go with it. Just curious if they have those nuts in metric?

[Kbeitz]

Go to an electrical supply store. They use them for hanging conduit pipe.

[Southwood]

Thanx I will look in the morning. I appreciate all the input, y'all are great.

[MikeZ]

Southwood: Those nuts are called coupling nuts. As K said they are used in hanging electric conduit etc. I have already replaced my application on my homemade mill. I looked all over for grd 8 but no luck. I think they are all grd 2 or 5 at best. I welded mine in end to butt plate with a 1/4 bolt on ea side so I can replace later if happens again. I have 1/2 grd 8 all thread for threaded rod. The only comfort is that the coupling nut will give you about 6 times the threads to wear. keep lubed.

[Kbeitz]

The long nut never has giving me any problems.



 

[Southwood]

The welder was here today & replaced that bad nut. I was excited to get it done. I figured I would be up & running today, but no luck. I went to adjust the drive side tracking & that nut & bolt are messed up as well. I called woodland mills & they want to send more parts to try & fix this 2 year old tracking problem. Upon further inspection I noticed my bandwheels don't look like they are spinning true. My question is could bad wheels be causing my tracking problems? My mill is like new & I have way too many problems to mention for only cutting 30 logs if I'm lucky. Since they won't replace the mill, I need to find the problem & fix it. They said I could resell it but not replace it. Anyone want to buy a mill? :-[

[HOLTeam]

I am just checking to see if you ever got your mill running correctly, I know it has been a little while since your last post.