Stihl BG 86 won't start

[JohnG28]

Im having a problem with my Stihl leaf blower.  A few weeks back it died while I was running it and would not restart. Didn't have time to look into it, so I left it for a while. I have since tried to get it running, but not having any luck.  It has spark, getting fuel, and p/c are in good shape.  It seems like its flooding out. I have tried adjusting the carb but still nothing. I have the low adj at 1 turn out, high is at the stop. Fuel is fresh, filter is fine. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

[T Welsh]

JohnG28, High and low speed screws should be set at 1 turn out from seated. Sounds like you have a fuel problem. Try to start it under normal conditions and when it wont fire, Pull the spark plug and see if it is wet with gas. also so double check for good spark while you are looking. If it is wet,you need to tear the carb down and blow all offices out with carb cleaner and air and reassemble it checking that the needle valve is not sticking and then make sure the jug is not filled with unburnt gas.(pull the started handle and blow air into the spark plug hole at least 5 or 6 times,put it back in and cross your fingers and say 3 Hail Marys and she should fire over. let us know what you find. Tim

[JohnG28]

Thanks Tim. I have the low out 1 turn, and the high side has a limit cap that I have not trimmed. I have pulled the plug when it won't start and its wet with fuel. Cylinder is wet but not full of fuel. Checked for spark and there is visible spark. That's what has left me puzzled. It sputtered a couple times today, no sign of life after that though. I'll look into it further.

[Paul_H]

Check the spark arrestor screen in the muffler and see if it is plugged.A 5/8 socket should do the trick.

[JohnG28]

The spark screen was also clean. Sorry, didn't cover all the bases at the beginning.  : It does have some fuel that has leaked out of somewhere and run down the outside of the casing. Not sure where its from, but may be related here. I'll see what some inspection yields tomorrow.

[joe_indi]

Probably a damaged inlet needle in the carburetor is the culprit. Ethanol do cause it if not age.
If you are able to handle it as a DIY job, I think you can replace the inlet needle without even removing the carb from the engine.Just pull off the upper tube on the carb, remove the four screws that hold the primer bulb and priming pump, lift it up carefully, lift the metering diaphragm, loosen the Philips head screw, enough to pull out the tiny shaft that holds the lever in place, pull off the inlet needle.If it has a small ring on the rubber tip, it needs replacing.
Put in a new needle and reverse the steps and the job is done

Joe

[JohnG28]

One other question, does the idle adjustment need to be at any specific place to start? I don't think it would make a difference starting, as the engine is in high idle setting to start. Just a thought I suppose. I'll get her apart later today and see what I can. Thanks for the help so far.

[joe_indi]

One other question, does the idle adjustment need to be at any specific place to start?

Loosen the idle screw till it looses contact with the lever of the throttle butterfly.
Now gradually screw it in till the butterfly is open a wee bit. Better still, if you have the carb off the blower, hold it to the light and screw in the idle adjustment till you see barely see a sliver of light at the lower side of the butterfly.
Do fine adjustments from this point.
Otherwise setting of the L screw will go wrong.

Joe

[T Welsh]

JohnG28, If you get sputter but will not fire and run. try a new spark plug. they are cheap and fast fix, before ripping into the carb. sounds like you are getting fuel,so make sure you are getting spark too. eliminate the simple things before moving on to more complex problems. let us know how you make out. I just did the same thing with an older BR400 I had laying in the garage for a year, last week. went to fire it up and it poured gas from the carb after a couple of pulls, the needle valve stuck in the open position and stayed there, I have seen this before so I new what to do. got inside the carb and sure enough it was not closing on its own pulled it out cleaned it and reinstalled it and made sure it opened and closed. put it back together and it fired right up. eliminate the simple things first before moving on to the bigger fixes. Tim

[JohnG28]

Well I finally tore into it today. Only a couple weeks late, but first chance I've had. So....new plug, no results. Not even a sputter. Pulled covers and air box off, seems fuel was coming out between carb and air box. This explained the fuel running out that I was seeing. Tightened up, tried again, nothing.  : Pulled the carb out, took off metering diaphragm, good shape.Pulled the inlet needle, looks like new. Pump diaphragm in good shape too. Blew it out quick, back together.  Nothing!!!!  >:( One.other thing I don't think I mentioned last time, the last time it was working in cut out running wot. Hasn't run since. Any thoughts or help are much appreciated.

[T Welsh]

JohnG28, Once you verify that you are getting gas to the cylinder,you need to check for spark. pull the plug and ground it to the top of the cylinder head and pull a couple of times. If no spark,start checking all ground points along the wire to the switch and back. stopped running after it warms up is a classic symptom of a bad coil. but after they cool down they will usually start and run until the internals expand from heat and give out again. Tim

[JohnG28]

Thanks Tim. I did check for spark with the new plug. There is a good visible spark. Plug was wet with fuel again too. I'm very puzzled.  :-\

[JohnG28]

One other question here, could this condition be due to the metering lever being too high? If it were then the main nozzle would be partly open along with the metering needle, right? Not sure myself, but just thinking of some possibilities.

[Clam77]

The plug was wet before you started pulling on it or after?? 

[T Welsh]

JohnG28, Start at the beginning and pull the plug and clear the cylinder of all gas,blow it out with air and pulling the starter cord a bunch of times and then put the plug back in and try starting as usual. pull the plug back out after a dozen tries. If its wet,see how much! is there a lot of unburnt gas in the top end? If so you will need to adjust the metering needle. It sounds like you are getting to much gas right away and its drowning the spark plug. Tim

[Clam77]

My thoughts too Tim.

[JohnG28]

So I tried today. Pulled on it about a dozen times, dry plug.  This isn't getting better. Any other thoughts?

[T Welsh]

JohnG28, Float needle is sticking! either on or off. Tear the carb apart again and make sure it has full range of movement. Take the screw out holding the metering needle and polish the shaft with fine emery cloth and reinstall it and then move it up and down to see if it is free. Then try again to start it. One way to verify that it is not another problem is to dry everything out and pour a little bit of mix gas down the spark plug hole and fire it up. It will try to fire until it burns the amount of gas poured into the hole! Good luck! look at it this way, you are gaining valuable experience as you fight through this problem and you are not paying shop time for someone else to fix it. Tim

[Al_Smith]

More times than not if you just install a rebuild kit in the carb it will solve all those problems . ;)

[joe_indi]

Today I had a BG86 that came in for repair with a sort of similar problem.
When the starter was pulled, it would just kind of burp and, that's it, it just wouldn't start.
The problem was the stop switch wires were kind of mashed together in a groove that seats the starter cover.
So, the ignition keeps cutting off.
On a spark plug you get a spark, but maybe only erratically.
To confirm that this was the problem, I disconnected the stop wires from the ignition module and tried starting the blower.
It fired on the first try.
Strangely, this was a fairly new machine which the customer had brought with him from USA  when he came back home for his annual holiday.
Maybe, instead of looking only into the carb, you should also look for other  causes like this one.
You never know.
Maybe a flywheel that's moved out of its position due to a sheared key.
Maybe something else.

Joe

[JohnG28]

Thanks for the continued help guys. This is a fairly new machine, I bought in in fall of 2010. It hasn't seen a lot of use either and I generally run gas out if my equipment is going to sit a while. This is the first piece of equipment I've had any this type issue with, so the experience is good for me. The diaphragms seemed like they were in good shape, but I suppose I don't have a lot of experience to judge by. I'll try pulling it apart again and see if I can get this straightened out. If not I'll try a carb kit. One good thing is after figuring this out I'll be able to get this ms200t I just picked up running. Needs a carb kit or new carb. Thanks for the help again.

[Al_Smith]

   carb kit. One good thing is after figuring this out I'll be able to get this ms200t I just picked up running. Needs a carb kit or new carb. Thanks for the help again.

When you get on that thing if you can't get it post away .I can write  volumes on those little hot rods . ;)

[JohnG28]

Well today brought more of the same.  I tried bypassing the stop switch with no results, so that doesn't seem to be the problem.  It did sputter a little with a shot of fuel in the spark plug hole but wouldn't start still.  Tore the carb apart agian, checked the metering needle.  It was clean and moved fine but seemed like there was a little play before the metering lever would engage it.  Is that how it should be?  There was some exhaust smoke barely coming out the exhaust even though I didn't get it running, making me think I'm close.  The metering diaphram was sort of cupped also, so maybe I need to just put in a carb kit and try from there.  Have to try to pick one up on Monday and try that.  : Thanks for the help!  Oh, on a positive note, I did finally put the blower away and put the carb back into that 200t.  Got that running!  It needs some work still, but at least it runs!

[joe_indi]

If the resultant noise wont be a bother, try starting the blower with the muffler removed.
Does it start without the muffler?
All this is narrowing down the cause to either a clogged muffler or an ignition problem.
Ignition problem could be either a sheared flywheel key or a short circuit inside the ignition module.

Joe

[JohnG28]

I'm quite certain the muffler isn't plugged, I've had the screen out and can see inside, nothing at all. As for ignition issues, how would I go about judging if this is the problem? I have seen spark and its not the switch as I tried bypassing it.

[joe_indi]

I'm quite certain the muffler isn't plugged, I've had the screen out and can see inside, nothing at all. As for ignition issues, how would I go about judging if this is the problem? I have seen spark and its not the switch as I tried bypassing it.

The BG86 that sell here have no screens and its a sealed unit.Clogging does occur on these.
The one that I had mentioned in an earlier reply, the one the customer bought from USA had a screen

But, even if the screen is clean, you just cannot be sure 100% that it is not actually clogged, and is the cause of the problem.
The only shortcut method to test this is to remove the muffler and try to start the engine.

There might be a spark at the plug, but, is it sparking at the correct set time?
Even Stihl workshop manuals say that the ignition module cannot be tested to see if it renders the spark at the proper timing.The only way to test is to use another module on the engine.
But removing the flywheel and looking at the taper can tell you if the key is intact.Wrong ignition timing does not mean there is no spark, it comes at the wrong time.

Joe

[T Welsh]

JohnG28, As Al said in previous post a carb rebuild kit will fix most problems. I am still puzzled as to weather you have a ignition problem or a fuel problem. pouring gas down the spark plug whole will get it to run for a few seconds. and you say it tries to start but doesn't run? Anyway you look at it you will have to eliminate one problem Fuel delivery, Get a rebuild kit and install it (correctly) diaphragms and gaskets in proper order and check fuel lines and vent for proper operation and see what happens. If it still will not start you have an ignition problem and then start at the switch and go toward the engine checking all wires for shorts until you get to the module, as joe_indi said there it no way to check these other than swapping a new one in, also check for a sheared key on the flywheel as Joe said they can shift and the timing will be off and it will give you fits until you realize that it was the cause. Good luck and keep at it!!!!! Tim

[lumberjack48]

This might sound a little far out, but i've had it happen. The spark plug i was using had all kinds of spark, grounded out on head. The plug was not firing under compression, i had this issue a couple times with spark plugs.

I think i said this before, i would shut all gas off to saw, dry it out and see if it well run on spray gas. This would eliminate ignition problem's.

[JohnG28]

I'll pick up a carb kit and start there, haven't had a chance to grab one yet. The muffler on this has the removable screen and both the screen and inside look clean. I suppose its possible that something could have happened to the key on one of those times I pulled on it like there was no tomorrow. Pulling the flywheel doesn't sound like much fun, a pain as I understand. If I end up getting there I'll let you know. I do wonder if this is ignition related as it died at wot without any hint of an issue and not run since. Strange though that it was flooding out and now isn't.

[lumberjack48]

Take the rewind off, lay it on it side and turn flywheel by hand, when under compression, look and see if mag and coil are lining up. If the key is sheared off the flywheel should have some movement in it. If it is sheared you wouldn't need a puller to get it off.

Flywheel is pretty simple one nut and a tap and its off.

[JohnG28]

There wasn't much play last I had it apart. It seemed to be right on, reached peak compression right as the magnets passed the coil and there was a definite push through the coil by them.

[T Welsh]

JohnG28, Another little trick if you have the side case off is to stick a 12mm socket or what ever size flywheel nut is on an air gun and ground the spark plug on the head and spin the engine dry and watch for good running spark. Tim

[thl]

I've got a BG 85 that ran fine up until last fall when it slowed and finally quit.  Just got around to checking fuel.  Thats's fine however the after using the trick mentioned about spinning the flywheel with an air gun and grounding the plug I find that I do not have spark.  Connections seem fine.  I'm guessing coil?  Comments?

Thanks,

Terry

[T Welsh]

thl, Your suspicions are probably right! Dead coil, But first there are a few things to check before going to get a new coil. Double check all electrical connections to make sure it is not grounding itself out, check underneath the flywheel for shorts in the wires,check to see if woodruff key is not sheared or twisted allowing timing to be off. If all good then its time to visit Mr. Stihl. Tim

[JohnG28]

OK, so I'm a little late on getting to this but better late than never. So I got the carb kit finally and installed it. Result was more of the same. >:( Dry plug and not a sputter. Soooo, I'm up for any further suggestions. Shop looked it over when I picked up the kit and were pretty puzzled too. Comp is good, p/c look like new, has spark which they verified also. Plug was dry after this last try. Still haven't pulled the flywheel. Is there a trick to.getting it off once the nut is off? Don't really want to break anything. Thanks.

[JohnG28]

So I messed around with this some more last night. Fuel through the plug hole got more sputters, wanted to start but nothing again. Dried plug and cylinder, tried again, wet plug then nothing. Dried and tried again, now dry plug and nothing. I'm really confused and close to taking it to the dealer, really don't want to. I did find the gap between coil and flywheel was close, reset with a business card and tried again. Nothing!!! Any final suggestions anyone?

[Paul_H]

If the resultant noise wont be a bother, try starting the blower with the muffler removed.
Does it start without the muffler?
Joe

I would try running without the muffler as Joe suggested,it only takes a minute to remove it.No blow,no suck and we've seen the same problem here in the shop where the engine would run without the muffler but not with it.

[westyswoods]

Don't know if this applies in you situation but check to see if there is a kill switch or wire shorted out somewhere. I had this happen several years ago with a Stihl saw, the kill switch was not clearing properly. Just a thought may not apply

Westy

[JohnG28]

I'll give it a try. I'm up for anything before the dealer. Thanks

[T Welsh]

JohnG28, If your getting it to sputter by pouring mix in the spark plug hole, your on to something! It tells me that you are NOT getting fuel to the engine.It is firing up until it runs out of fuel. You need to start at the beginning and look at all systems of the fuel delivery system and make sure everything is right. Start with the filter in the tank fish it out and remove it and make sure it flows gas,blow the fuel line out with air. check impluse line for cracks,remove carb and disassemble and verify you have all components in the right order, reassemble and try again! I know this gets frustrating, but look at the expirence you are getting and the money you are saving by doing this yourself. Trust me you will find the problem and weather you or the shop fixes this, you will be the smarter person in the end. Good Luck! Tim

[joe_indi]

I would try running without the muffler as Joe suggested,it only takes a minute to remove it.No blow,no suck and we've seen the same problem here in the shop where the engine would run without the muffler but not with it.

Very true. I have had blowers and hedge trimmers come in with blocked mufflers, not from carbon or oil, bur roaches, bugs geckos and small frogs!
Once the muffler causes any kind of resistance the air flow is stopped and no fresh fuel or air can be sucked into the crankcase.

Don't know if this applies in you situation but check to see if there is a kill switch or wire shorted out somewhere. I had this happen several years ago with a Stihl saw, the kill switch was not clearing properly. Just a thought may not apply

Westy

Precisely what I suggested:

Today I had a BG86 that came in for repair with a sort of similar problem.
When the starter was pulled, it would just kind of burp and, that's it, it just wouldn't start.
The problem was the stop switch wires were kind of mashed together in a groove that seats the starter cover.
So, the ignition keeps cutting off.
On a spark plug you get a spark, but maybe only erratically.
To confirm that this was the problem, I disconnected the stop wires from the ignition module and tried starting the blower.
It fired on the first try.
Strangely, this was a fairly new machine which the customer had brought with him from USA  when he came back home for his annual holiday.
Maybe, instead of looking only into the carb, you should also look for other  causes like this one.
You never know.
Maybe a flywheel that's moved out of its position due to a sheared key.
Maybe something else.

Joe

[martyinmi]

John,
   I ran into a situation nearly identical to yours that had me pulling out what's left of my hair a few weeks ago. The 1 year old Stihl leaf blower was sitting on my bench at work with a note that said: "please fix-won't start-full of gas-has spark". I tried everything I could think of for about 2 hours(as well as new line,filter), and was down on myself and ready to throw the dumb thing across the shop. An older retiree(he is 69) we have working for us came in the shop and and asked what was going on, as well as what all I'd tried so far. He suggested COMPLETELY draining the fuel system,  mix a new batch of gas, and have that be my starting point. I did as he suggested, knowing full I was wasting my time. After the new fuel and about 8-10 pulls, it fired and ran like new after about 30 seconds. It turns out one of the part time high school kids accidentally used on-road diesel fuel when he mixed the last batch of gas. There was just enough gas left in the container when he made a new batch to make it both look and smell like it should.
   I was embarrassed by this old fart, and he won't let me forget it :-[ So if I were you, before letting the dealer mess with it, I'd try new fuel

[Paul_H]

We get trimmers and saws with diesel fuel too.I think the marked fuel fools some people into thinking it's mixed.There is no mistaking the taste of diesel smoke.
Most times we can dump the fuel and replace with proper mixed fuel and keep the engine running with a shot of gas in the throat of the carb long enough that the system is purged.

[JohnG28]

Update on the latest today - pulled the muffler and mixed a new batch of fuel. Still nothing with new fuel and muffler off. It seems like there's no fuel again. Spark was still strong. I did regap the coil, as there was almost no clearance between it and the flywheel. Verified spark after, still nothing. Still at a loss......

[Paul_H]

What does the piston look like in through the ex port? Any scoring on the piston,is the port clean and unblocked?

[JohnG28]

The piston and cylinder look like new. No scoring at all, no carbon, no blockage.

[joe_indi]

You got a good cylinder and piston so compression is OK
You have tried 'spoon feeding' fuel into the cylinder
There is a spark at the plug.
These are the three basic requirements of any IC engine and you have them.
But the engine does not pop.
One of the three is not in line.
I would check the ignition coil and flywheel.
Unless you get that spark at the right time(ing), that engine will not pop.
That ignition coil has a speed limiter built into it. If that malfunctions you will not get a spark for starting the engine.
If you can lay your hands on a tachometer, with the spark plug removed, check the minimum reading when you pull on the starter, just fast enough to get a reading (100-120). Pull faster and check if the reading increases substantially. If it does not, try another coil.
But before you do all that, move the flywheel till the piston is just before TDC. The magnets should be nearly aligned with the coil. If the magnets have moved forward from the coil, remove the flywheel and check the position of the key.

Joe

[joe_indi]

Terry,
Thank you for starting this thread.I could use it as a checklist today.
I had a fairly new BG86 this morning which was dead. That is till I found the cause.It was a faulty kill switch. This machine has a Normally Off' type switch. When you press the stop switch the switch turns on and the engine stops.Since it is  spring loaded it returns to the Off position. In this case the switch was a bit stiff from dust so it was more of a Off-On situation.
Once I cleaned out the switch it worked again and the blower started up on the first attempt.
Joe

[JohnG28]

Thanks for that info Joe. Truthfully, I have put that blower in a corner for a while because I was so frustrated and sick of it. Plan on some work this weekend including reassembling most of a MS200t project. While I'm at it I'll pull the kill switch out and look it over to see if it's sticking. Thanks!

[JohnG28]

Well yesterday I took some time to get back into this blower. First try to just start it got nothing, and the plug was dry, so no fuel. It will all but crank over with a squirt of fuel into the cylinder, but just won't quite kick over. At the same time it's also spinning the nut and washer off the impeller side now, just as it's almost starting. I can pull on it all day and that nut won't loosen, but soon as it wants to start it spins off. Now I'm thinking this could be that the timing is off slightly, causing it to fire just a little too soon? And back to no fuel to boot. I did try bypassing the switch completely, and that didn't change anything, so I think the switch is not an issue.

[Al_Smith]

I'm not sure if Stihl uses automatic advance type coils on the blowers or not .They did on some of the older saws namely 042 and 048 .Those would occasional fail but usually they would not advance .

FWIW you can actually get most two cycle to run without even a carb on them .A little squirt of fuel in the intake you might get 5 seconds of run .About the only way it could get out of time is if it sheared a key in the flywheel .

Now I don't have a BG 86 to look at but I do a BG 85 .I'll take a peek at a blown engine I have in the shed to see how the impulse line hooks up .If that thing came loose it absolutetly won't pump fuel .Even if it didn't though the prime should have gotten a putt or two out of it I should think .

[Al_Smith]

Well that idea is null and void at least on a BG 85 because it doesn't use an external impulse line .It's possible but not likely that the impulse could be blocked some how though .

What that model has is two lines coming from the fuel tank .Because the carb has a primer button a supply line plus a return line .

[Clam77]

Well.. it's been giving you fits since your first post about it in may... whatever's wrong with it ya best figure it out soon cuz fall is RIGHT around the corner..    8)

[JohnG28]

Clam, Ill admit I haven't kept at it all this time, but still haven't figured it out. The oncoming fall sure made me start thinking about it it though. As for the engine, it has no impulse line either, internal also. I had the manifold off and hit all passages with compressed air. Gaskets are good and no blockage I can see of impulse or any other passage. This is a strato engine so has multiple intake passages, but they are fine. Fuel lines are fine, primer work fine. I'll check the flywheel again tomorrow, maybe I missed something. Don't have a tach to check the rpm when cranking, but there's still spark, that I know. >:( >:(

[Al_Smith]

   This is a strato engine   ,

Aha the rest of the story .

[JohnG28]

I didn't realize it myself until I looked at the manifold close, then did a little research. Only figured this myself recently, sorry I didn't include when I figured that out.

[Al_Smith]

I kinda figured it had the impulse on the manifold after I looked at my junk BG 85 engine .

About the only thing I can say is refering to that engine design my buddys 441 saw became a pain in the buttocks to start after a while .Almost sounds like the thing is sucking the fresh air portion for the blow down cycle but not taking a suction through the carb so it isn't getting any fuel into the cylinder .

That's just a guess as I've never worked on that engine design .

[JohnG28]

Thanks for the continued assistance Al, and all the help from everyone else as well. That almost sounds like what I seem to be getting, but I finally bit the bullet today and took it to the shop. I've had enough and need it soon, so I guess I'll see what they say. I'll let you all know what they find. Thanks again for all the help. Either way I have learned some so no total loss.

[Clam77]

I kinda figured it had the impulse on the manifold after I looked at my junk BG 85 engine .

About the only thing I can say is refering to that engine design my buddys 441 saw became a pain in the buttocks to start after a while .Almost sounds like the thing is sucking the fresh air portion for the blow down cycle but not taking a suction through the carb so it isn't getting any fuel into the cylinder .

That's just a guess as I've never worked on that engine design .

I can only think of 3 things why it wouldn't suck through the carb.... and each one gets drastically worse..   :D

[joe_indi]

At the same time it's also spinning the nut and washer off the impeller side now, just as it's almost starting. I can pull on it all day and that nut won't loosen, but soon as it wants to start it spins off. Now I'm thinking this could be that the timing is off slightly, causing it to fire just a little too soon?

Seems like the ignition timing is way off so that the engine is firing in the reverse direction.That could get the impeller nut to loosen.
I am sure once more that the culprit is the ignition timing.
Like I have already said, a spark alone will not start that engine, the spark has to be at the correct time.

Joe

[JohnG28]

I'm sure you're right Joe. I don't seem to be able to figure out why myself though, but I'll hopefully know a little more soon. Thanks for your help.

[JohnG28]

Well I finally got an answer to my problems today! The thing has been in the shop for 6 weeks now and I've been a little pithed to not hear anything despite a couple calls. I do trust this shop and I'm glad I did now. Turns out there was a bad crank bearing. This would explain it dying at WOT, as well as why nothing else worked. Even better, they submitted it to Stihl and they are covering it despite the machine being two years old and long out of warranty. Not happy to wait so long but happy with the outcome. I almost questioned Stihl over this but they definitely made up for it. ;D

[Al_Smith]

Well that would make sense because a sloppy crank bearing would wipe out the seal .Which BTW is the cause of many Stihl Ms 200T's dying on the vine .

What doesn't make sense is a failure for no older than what it is .

[JohnG28]

I agree, it makes no sense to me either. I didn't get close to tearing it down that far, wouldn't have even considered a seal or bearing. Thing can't have 20 hrs on it. Either way I am happy that Stihl is making it right. I'll be keeping that in mind on my 200t too, wasn't any slop when it was tore down couple months ago. BTW Al, you were right about them 200s, sweet little saws. Easy to see why they're so popular. Thanks all that helped me along with this undertaking.

[Al_Smith]

I suppose one slips through cracks now and again .Stihl does make a quality product though .I'm sure it shocked them about as much as you to see a premature bearing failure .

[JohnG28]

So I left my blower in the shop over the winter, don't have much use for it through the winter months, plus I actually sort of forgot about it with busy weeks. Anyway, I talked to the shop couple days ago, turns out not only were the crank bearings shot buy so is the crank. She was spinning in a nice oblong pattern. That would explain the impeller side bolt coming off when cranking. They sort of forgot about it too it sounds like, but I didn't pry either so I guess no big deal. Sounds like I may get either a new unit or (preferably) credit to trade up for another model.