borates

[thedeeredude]

When you put a spray borate on(timbor or penetreat), what is the ideal MC of the wood? 

[Don P]

The greener the better, it diffuses through the wood on the water, moving from areas with high borate concentration to places with low concentration.

[sprucebunny]

And the borates will prevent mildew on these green logs ??? I can just spray them and stack them to dry and they will be nice and clean looking when I go to use them ???

I'm double checking on this cause untreated green spruce have turned into mildew factories on me that bleach won't cure  :

[Don P]

Welll, not necessarily. Good drying conditions will prevent that. Up off the ground stickered and cover over the top only of the stack. Borates will help if the concentration is high enough and the drying conditions aren't too bad. Ive left some professionally borate treated scraps laying around the jobsite and it is in good shape, untreated scraps lately have been growing mold. This wood looked to have more borate than I've ever gotten into the wood. Sorry I can't answer better than that. When I have used it its either been on restoration or the wood was put under good drying conditions also. We did soak a cabin in it that had alot of bluestain in the logs when it arrived (the homeowner requested it that way). We had a rainy spell and these logs started getting hairy, we soaked it and it stopped growing and dried up. We also got the roof on and the weather broke.  I have heard folks say they sprayed borate and got bluestain anyway. I tend to think they were spritzing it on instead of soaking (or repeatedly soaking) the wood. Dip diffusion usually calls for a 3 minute dip in a tank of solution.

If you look up the MSDS for BoraCare it contains Ethylene Glycol. It is a poison to fungi and critters, its reason for being in that mix is that the glycols dry very slowly and let the borates go in deeper. I spray recycled wood I bring home with a mixture similar to that. If you want the glycol without the poison, propylene glycol or PEG are added in some other borate mixtures.

We discovered a ppb hatch in the white oak timbers of the house we're working on earlier this week and are probably going to use one of the glycol mixtures before we button it up any further. I'm hoping it'll kill the ones in there as they try to exit and kill any new ones trying to chew thru it on the way back in.

[DanG]

I can get Sodium Borate in 50lb bags from a fertilizer company.  I was thinking of disolving it and spraying it on with a garden sprayer.  Would you rate this as:

1. A good thing to do?

2. Better than nothing?

3. Not worth bothering with?

[Ernie]

DanG

You created a Poll, I too want the results

Thanks

Ernie

[Don P]

Dan, I think that's borax, not sure.
If so I would see beetle's post here,
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=8429.0

The MSDS for Sodium Borate is here'
http://www.sefsc.noaa.gov/HTMLdocs/SodiumBorate.htm

What I've used is DOT, Disodium octaborate tetrahydrate,
MSDS is here,
http://www.nisuscorp.com/pdfs/Boracide-MSDS%20-%20updated%202-04.pdf

If you look at the chemical formula for each it is different. I think that beetle's recipe turns it into an insecticidal, anti fungal. I've seen that mix in publications too. I don't recall any good grades in chemistry  :P :

I just get Solubor, DOT, from the farm supply and mix it with water. Boron is a plant nutrient in small quantities.

Seasonal reminder; Don't forget to change the ethylene glycol in your truck for the winter 

[srjones]

Ernie,
Where do I find the poll?  Got a link?  I'm still fairly new to FF so I'm not quite sure where to look.
-srj

[Ernie]

I can get Sodium Borate in 50lb bags from a fertilizer company.  I was thinking of disolving it and spraying it on with a garden sprayer.  Would you rate this as:

1. A good thing to do?

2. Better than nothing?

3. Not worth bothering with?

Three posts up :D :D

[srjones]

Ummm...ooops.  I misread your post.  I thought a formal 'poll' had been created.  My bad.

Here's my take.

Better than nothing but probably not as good as Disodium octaborate tetrahydrate aka Timbor.  Probably a lot cheaper though...  25lbs is about $100 from http://www.doyourownpestcontrol.com/timbor.htm

Whatever you do, make sure it's well disolved, especially if you're using a supersaturated solution.  Most directions say to disolve it in warm or hot water.

-srj