50|50 deal

wideslabber · January 22, 2013, 12:01:26 PM

Hi all
This my first post but i have been reading here for awhile.Any way i am on a job that is cutting fir logs.I am almost at the completion of the job about 10 000 bft and we have been splitting the beams and off cuts down the middle which is the deal but i asked the fellow if i could have some of the slabs for firewood and he said he wants to keep them or sell them to me .Now I am a mellow guy but this kind of peed me off.My question to my fellow sawyers is this asking to much am over stepping or is that wood that went through the sawmill 50% mine.?Like i say i am almost finished and really don t want to rock the boat but i need firewood.
Thanks Matt

WH_Conley · January 22, 2013, 12:09:43 PM

I would just remember it the next time I made a deal and have it understood up front. A few slabs are not worth getting upset over. Look around and find a couple of loads of wood someplace else. If you push too hard all it will do is give you a name of skinflint or worse and may affect obtaining future jobs.

beenthere · January 22, 2013, 12:23:51 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

rooster 58 · January 22, 2013, 12:34:17 PM

Yep! I agree with conley. Maybe he'll spell you a load or so but i wouldn't pusf the issue. Welcome to the forum ;D

ST Ranch · January 22, 2013, 12:41:45 PM

Agree with WH - I recognize slabs from 10,000 bf may seem like a bit, but for me, slabs are a surpluss - I have to give it away - basically charge $10 bucks a bundle to pay for the strapping [I bundle my slabs into 4'x4' by random length bundles] - Around here, free fiewood on crown owned land is plentiful, so slabs have little value. Tom

Jeff · January 22, 2013, 12:50:14 PM

I guess it never occurred to me that 50/50 would include slabs. Usually a % share is worked out for the product you are creating, not the bi-product, in this case the slabs. I agree, that it probably should have been spelled out at the beginning, as I've always considered the slabs belonging to the log owner.

beenthere · January 22, 2013, 02:22:07 PM

You have the handle "wideslabber".

Is this a clue?
What is the face of the sawn lumber that you are going after? or the face of the offcuts?

Just possible the slabs were pretty heavy and it looked to the customer that you were going for the firewood, not the lumber. Not saying that this happened, but it could.

I sawed with a good friend who turned out a very meager slab pile. He would go for anything that made a 4" wide face.

Care to give us an idea what the 50/50 deal included for offcuts sawn from the fir logs? Doug fir? or other fir? Just curious.

rimshot · January 22, 2013, 02:26:10 PM

Quote from: wideslabber on January 22, 2013, 12:01:26 PM
Hi all
.Now I am a mellow guy but this kind of peed me off.My question to my fellow sawyers is this asking to much am over stepping or is that wood that went through the sawmill 50% mine.?Like i say i am almost finished and really don t want to rock the boat but i need firewood.
Thanks Matt

=======================

No, I don't believe it is asking too much. Settling the small matters before commencing the deal applies to both parties, not just you. It's not worth a shoving match but he al least needs to hear you are not happy with the deal. Or so it seems to me.

rim

clww · January 22, 2013, 02:43:00 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Cedarman · January 22, 2013, 03:29:09 PM

If you took the job thinking that you would get half the slabs, then I think that you should not necessarily throw in the towel. I would approach the person and simply say. "I guess I was thinking something different about the slabs than you were". " I was hoping to get 1/2 because I can sure use them for heating." "What are your thoughts on this"? By doing this you have thrown the ball back in his court to make a decision. If he is adamant about keeping the slabs, then you gave it your best shot and know in the future to spell that out in advance. If he agrees to give you some slabs, then you come out ahead. If he keeps all the slabs, then he looks like the tightwad.
Your goal is to keep both of you happy.

Chuck White · January 22, 2013, 04:47:30 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, wideslabber.

Situations like yours can be eliminated by dividing up the logs, not the lumber.

That's what most sawyers do.

Jeff · January 22, 2013, 04:54:04 PM

Boy, I can see how dividing up the logs that belong to the customer could lead to a very unhappy customer. You never know for sure what is going to be in a log until it has been sawed. If you find something exceptional, the log owner may lose out, which would not be good at all in their eyes. Dividing the lumber is the way to go, to be fair.

Chuck White · January 22, 2013, 05:35:36 PM

Let the owner have first pick! ;D

Jeff · January 22, 2013, 05:40:43 PM

The problem with that is, is that they have less of an idea what might be inside than the sawyer, at leas an experienced sawyer. They may pick on size, when size may not have anything to do with the quality.

Chuck White · January 22, 2013, 05:51:11 PM

Ummm..... True.

I can see where the sawyer would likely come out ahead.

Best bet, just spell it out concerning slab and cut-offs!

That way you won't lose a potential repeat customer.

dgdrls · January 22, 2013, 06:01:20 PM

Welcome to the Forum, best darn place on the web!

Let the slabs go and chalk it up to experience,
I would also not handle, pile or organize them
beyond off-loading from the mill
appears 50/50 in clients mind doesn't include them.
I certainly wouldn't pay him for any

DGDrls.

drobertson · January 22, 2013, 06:13:49 PM

Welcome to the forum. I have never quite ran into this situation, most custom jobs are a bit smaller, however, if the logs are his, then enough is said. If you want to buy them, this is your choice. I have asked for sometime now what the owner plans on doing with the slabs. When portable, they are his and glad of it. When I am stacking in the rack and banding this brings into play a different equation. Like I said the whole log is the owner's. but banding and handling should be considered. If you are custom sawing the custormer's satisfaction should be first, then payment of services rendered as usual. If you are sawing, I am sure there will be plenty of slabs in the future, just don't sell what you don't have, not saying you have just a good practice. Communication and understanding is critical. david

Magicman · January 22, 2013, 07:00:58 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum, wideslabber. I have read your OP a couple of times and am still uncertain about the sawing deal. ?? If you were dividing the lumber 50-50, then half of the slabs are yours, but remember, greed is green.

I have seen customers that willingly gives slabs away and then I had one customer that I specifically asked for some slabs and was firmly turned down and he was hauling and dumping them. He continued to dump and I did not ask again.

POSTON WIDEHEAD · January 22, 2013, 07:07:25 PM

Quote from: Magicman on January 22, 2013, 07:00:58 PM
I had one customer that I specifically asked for some slabs and was firmly turned down and he was hauling and dumping them. He continued to dump and I did not ask again.

Had you made him mad? say_what

Magicman · January 22, 2013, 07:14:00 PM

No, I think I made a mistake telling him what it would be used for. I said for smoking wood, and did not offer to bring him a turkey. ;D

POSTON WIDEHEAD · January 22, 2013, 07:22:21 PM

Quote from: Magicman on January 22, 2013, 07:14:00 PM
No, I think I made a mistake telling him what it would be used for. I said for smoking wood, and did not offer to bring him a turkey. ;D

Sounds like he was the Turkey. :D :D :D You should have smoked him.
Saw long enough and you'll run into a bass every now and again.

wideslabber · January 22, 2013, 09:35:17 PM

Cheers all for the feedback.The job that i have been on has been quite intensive for a 1 man show (nothing new for alot of you guys).I have my bobcat on site and my crane truck aswell as the mill(ltsh40).The logs themselves were not staged for me when i got to the job i had to use the crane truck to safely dismantle the piles left by the excavator during the land clearing.I had to buck all the logs and then stage them for milling myself mostley (16 to 20 footers).I also stickered all the beams and off cuts.This job started at beggining of november and i tried to work 5 days a week but for 4 to 5 hours a day.So now jobs comeing to a close and i see the mountain of slabs so i asked for a truck load thinking that i have kind of made a friend and gone the extra mile to make all the finished lumber air well.I got shot down i guess i will live and learn and make all the conditions known in advance next time even though i think a 60/40 is better deal on fir lumber.

Cheers Matt

Brucer · January 23, 2013, 12:47:51 AM

You assumed one thing (50-50 = half the log). The customer assumed something else (50-50 = half the lumber). Both of you thought your idea was reasonable. Both of you assumed the the other person was thinking the same thing you were. Neither one of you was "right".

Is he trying to take advantage of you? probably not.

Take it as a lesson in dealing with customers. You have knowledge that the customer doesn't. Never assume that he/she will think the same way about things as you do. What seems reasonable to you might not seem that way to someone else who hasn't got your knowledge and experience.

customsawyer · January 23, 2013, 03:26:54 AM

I have tried splitting the wood with customers on a few different occasions and have came out on the short end of the stick every time. I just don't do it anymore.

redbeard · January 23, 2013, 04:24:34 AM

Slabs from Douglas Fir are valuable in the firewood market. Especially if you sliced them a little heavy eliminating the sap wood. I just did a big 10,000 bf job of old growth and sold 6 cords firewood from the left over slabs. Paid for my blades,fuel and then some. I cut the slabs into firewood lengths as I am milling the logs I am stationary so I don't let pile get very big even the big thick bark is good heat. I stay firm on the slabs I've learned my lessons on letting customers take the slabs. usually they don't want the extra work of dealing with it. And I have to rehandle it. A lot of the slabs from other species gets seperated from the Doug Fir piles. Its just part of my system. This time of year if you have dry Doug Fir firewood you can get as high as 300.00 a cord. Seattle Wa. area. Iam happy with half that. Welcome Wide slabber. and sorry you didn't get what was due too you. There's always next time.