Let's say I had $25000 to spend....

[boatman]

I would like to start a portable custom sawing business for under $25000.  I have a few acres, a dually, an old 8n and myself.

I would like to work up to @120,000 bdft a year in the long run.

I am considering a Peterson WPF or bandmill.  I prefer simple machines, I know how to maintain and fix machines, I just don't want to spend much time doing it.

I want to have all equipment at the site in one trip (my truck gets 6mpg). 

If you were to start over with what I have now, what do you feel would be the best equipment to start out with?  Keeping it under $25000?

[zopi]

Good used LT-40 hydraulic,
and some logrite toys...to start with..

Gotta figure out what you can realistically do in terms of market share and the type of product you can turn out...a kiln is a definite plus..value added as it were..

[scrout]

What will you be selling?
If you are selling sawing at owner sites, seems you will be limited to so many $/bf, regardless of species, plus competing with hobby guys.
If you are selling wood, higher value is obviously better, or you are going to need a few really good steady customers for a particular size/product.
I like the idea of timber frame beams, cutting and planing, nice high average selling price.
But then handling/hauling large logs and beams is not easy.
Either way I would look at the Sawmill Exchange for a used saw and purchase as much power as my pocketbook would allow.
If I had a WPF I would have already called this guy:
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/mat/1762248249.html 

[Ron Wenrich]

You have to define your niche.  If you just want to do jobs where you can saw a variety of sizes, than a bandmill might fit the ticket.  If you want to attack large logs that bandmills can't handle, then you want a swinger.  Put on a slabber and you have another niche.  Define your market, then look for some good, used equipment.  

Why 120 Mbf?  Is that some sort of break even point, or is that a respectable income?  That's about 500 bf/day.  

[Gilman]

thanks Scrout, I'm on my way to go look at those redwood logs.     That's just up the road from me.

[boatman]

I intend to saw on the customers property.  I do not want to get into value added right now. 

I used the 120mbft figure as I feel that would be a good income to supplement my military retirement, while still keeping it a one man operation.

The options I am considering right now are basically,  buy a less expensive mill and some support equipment or just get the best mill I can afford.

[zopi]

Still..if you plan on sawing for production, get a hydraulic mill...as was mentioned, that 120kmbft is about 500 bdft/day..didn't do the math to figure out if that considers holidays, 40 hr week etc...but consider, alot of your time will be spent prospecting, advertising, looking over jobs and doing estimates..etc, etc, blah blah..you won't spend as much time with blade in wood as you'd like...so whatever you can get equipment wise that will save time and your body, you need to get if possible..handling logs takes alot out of you..you won't always get a customer who can/will
have a neat pile of logs at the landing for you...

I mention the kiln, because there is alot of opportunity to sell "niche wood" which from a lumber standpoint is worthless..turning blocks,
and whatnot..or the guy that wants kiln dried q-sawn oak and isn't patient enough to wait for and is dumb enough to offer 12 bucks a bdft..(I did not rob him like that, but the offer was there..) you won't really need a big electric or gas kiln but you might include a solar kiln in your plans...once you have the mill, one can be built for a very few dollars...again, depends on your niche..but any missed market is lost cash if you have the material...

[Magicman]

I paid less than $25K for my used 4 year old WM Superhydraulic mill.  My business is in the portable custom sawing market.  I buy no logs and sell no lumber.  I would strongly recommend a "Super" mill, because it has the strong hydraulics to handle the various logs that customers will want sawed.  I have picked up many jobs because competitors had "whimpy" mills and couldn't handle heavy logs.  Those are now my regular customers. 

It takes a while to build up a customer base.  In 8½ years, I have built up to average sawing your yearly sawing goal.  I should reach my "Million Board Feet" sometime during my 10th year of sawing.   

[scrout]

Gilman,
Please let us know how those redwoods look.
Your sig does not say you have a swinger, would you split'em to get them on your WM70?

[Gilman]

The redwoods were pretty rough, large knots, double tops and lots of sapwood.

I would have ripped them and then sawn them with the lt70.

There was one pretty nice one, but I became more interested in the 40' trusses he had for sale.

[rph816]

Seems to be pretty one-sided for Woodmizer.  I have a Timberking b-20 and have used B-20s, TK 1220, WM LT-15 and LT-28 (with electronics).  Personally I like the hydraulics on the b-20 best.  TK now has a 1600 that can have almost all the hydraulics for around $17K brand new.  Either way, 500 Bd feet is an easy morning on something like the b-20.  I would recommend hydraulics over other support equipment, especially if you plan to remain mobile.  With the B-20, a cant hook and some chains and come-alongs you could easily exceed 1000 bd feet unless something terrible happened.  I can't say enough about hydraulics (especially loaders and turners) it's amazing how much time and energy they conserve.

Ryan

[Mark Webb]

When I got back from Kansas City picking my mill, the next day I bought a 1000 watt generator and a pedestal fan and have been glad every summer since then.

[zopi]

Was thinking about this one some more...used lt-40 hyd, used edger, and a decent winch to mount just aft of the log loader...for parbuckling logs closer to the mill...

[paul case]

well,
if i had $25000 to spend i would probably just keep sawing till it was all gone.

all kidding aside  i would look at cooks real close. for me the heavier the better.  my set up is all manual and it would probably be tough to make your goal with it unless just sawing big cants or ties. pc

[boatman]

It seems every one feels band mills are the way to go.  Is the higher operating cost(compared to swing mills) offset by quality/quantity of the product?

[Magicman]

I have no experience with a swing mill.  I will say that I'm knocking off up to four 2X4's, three 2X6's, or one 2X12 with each pass and regularly saw over two mbf per day, loosing 1/8" kerf.  I'm very satisfied with my decision.

I'm sure that swing owners are satisfied with their decision also.  It's simply a matter of matching your sawmill to your market.

[mcfcfan]

I have no experience with a swing mill.  I will say that I'm knocking off up to four 2X4's, three 2X6's, or one 2X12 with each pass and regularly saw over two mbf per day, loosing 1/8" kerf.  I'm very satisfied with my decision.

I'm sure that swing owners are satisfied with their decision also.  It's simply a matter of matching your sawmill to your market.

Hi magicman, 2mbf, am I correct in thinking that is 2 thousand board feet.
Is that log form or sawn timber? I work that out at 4.7m3 sawn timber.
Regards Lee

[Magicman]

Scaled dimension framing lumber.  1813 bf  today and I finished at 2:15 PM.  Last Wednesday, I sawed 2493 bf and then 716 bf Thursday morning before my forward power feed solenoid quit working.  Things will be different on the job that I moved to today.  ERC, and it will be sawed by hourly rate.

Look at this thread.  "Saw jobs get BIGGER"  It details several day's sawing.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,43995.0.html

[revnell]

boatman,
I hope this thread is still alive. My Peterson ATS cuts a similar output (1000 bf/day) of a much more expensive hydraulic bandmill with much better accuracy. I have planed boards from both and there is a very big difference. Operational efficiency, especially the blade cost of 1/12 that of bandmills, sharpening the blade on the mill in 5 minutes, not needing hydraulic log loaders and turners, very low cost wear parts, and more versatile output of boards or slabs are a few reasons that bandmills are becoming obsolete. That may sound strong, but the facts are available to you if you look for them. Good luck on your journey.

[wtf]

Boatman,
I have a WPF Peterson. I have been doing custom milling for 8 years with it and am very pleased with it. Alone, I can saw 1000 bdft plus, with a helper 2000 bdft. plus. (sawed wood, not log scale) I can sharpen my blade in 5 minutes and run for 2-3 weeks before changing blades, unless I hit something that chips more than 50% of the teeth on my blade. I can set up and tear down in 15 min. each. I use tandum axle trailer, my dually truck, and my portable winch. I do not have to have an edger or restack slabs to edge. The only thing I handle is boards and small scrap pieces. I love it. And I do a lot of logs that are over 36" dia., 48" is not uncommon and a couple of 52"dia. God made logs round and I roll them with my skid loader or winch, the big ones I can't roll too well by hand. I guess I missed that class.
If I had $25000.00 I'd do it the same way again. Buy the way, when I started 95% of my work was at the customers, now it is 95% at my farm, go figure.
Good luck,

Russ

[ladylake]

Seems to be pretty one-sided for Woodmizer.  I have a Timberking b-20 and have used B-20s, TK 1220, WM LT-15 and LT-28 (with electronics).  Personally I like the hydraulics on the b-20 best.  TK now has a 1600 that can have almost all the hydraulics for around $17K brand new.  Either way, 500 Bd feet is an easy morning on something like the b-20.  I would recommend hydraulics over other support equipment, especially if you plan to remain mobile.  With the B-20, a cant hook and some chains and come-alongs you could easily exceed 1000 bd feet unless something terrible happened.  I can't say enough about hydraulics (especially loaders and turners) it's amazing how much time and energy they conserve.

Ryan

  500 bf is no more than 2 hours on my B20 unless cutting small crooked logs, most times with decent logs it's over 300 bf a hour all day. For $25000 I'd buy a brand new B2000 TK, it's a nice simple mill with all the hydrauluics and very few trouble causing electric over hydrauluic .    Steve

[boatman]

I have ordered a new Timber King 2000.  It should be here by August 1st. 

I appreciate all the input over the past year. 

I'll  certainly need more as I start cutting.

Anyone here know about the new english blades Timberking is selling?

[Larry]

The B2000 appears to be very much improved over the B-20.  I think TK has a real winner with this mill.  Congratulations on your new machine...didn't take long to get rid of that $25,000. ;D

I've used the TK Ultra band and the Munkforssager bands...no difference as far as I can tell other than price.  They both cut well.  Currently using WM Double Hard bands because I like there 7 degree tooth profile.

[ladylake]

 The TK B2000 has to be the best buy out there in mills right now, some other brands would be well over $30000 to get any where near what the B2000 will do. A little while back they could be bought for $22500, I didn't expect that to last long.   Steve

[boatman]

I'm getting this one for @$24,500 including 26 blades and delivery.