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Figured I would post the pictures,

Started by BargeMonkey, May 10, 2017, 07:03:42 PM

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BargeMonkey

 I know alot of us are "professionals" but most people don't think, im guilty of not waiting sometimes also.This happened at my neighbors house this weekend, older guy filling up a lawn mower that had been shut off a few minutes earlier, 1 guy got burned pretty good. The can you see in the picture was FULL and if the wind had not shifted she would have popped. 

  

  

  

 
Any closer or inside the garage and it would have been a real show, saw it leaving my driveway. 👎

coxy


BargeMonkey

Quote from: coxy on May 10, 2017, 07:58:50 PM
that's funny  :D :D
he didn't think so but we where able to make sure it didn't get worse, it was over in less than 20mins but just shows how quick it happens. I left you a message the other day, 👍

red

Stop drop and roll , hope everyone is healing up . 
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

grouch

Won't have to mow that spot for a while.

Did the tires go with a bang or a hiss?
Find something to do that interests you.

g_man

Your right Barge. We handle gas and fuel so much it is easy to forget it isn't just water. When it goes it is a surprise but it shouldn't be.

gg

petefrom bearswamp

Ouch a bad situation.
I wonder if the poor guy got an open burning violation.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

OH logger

i used to have a guy helpin me who was a good guy but just not the sharpest knife in the drawer sometimes. once I saw him fillin his (my) saw with gas while smoking a cigarette. when I asked kim what the *&$% he was doin he said "how much damage can a gallon of gas do?". he said it with a smile. I think he basically forgot (kinda on the same lines as forgettin It wasn't water) and just made a joke to smooth it over. I laughed after the fact but it was kinda unnerving at the time. he had been around saws and loggin his whole life and just got complacant. come to think of it I haven't seen him for a few years. I wonder if hes still alive  :D
john

coxy

Quote from: OH logger on May 11, 2017, 05:01:44 PM
i used to have a guy helpin me who was a good guy  I saw him fillin his (my) saw with gas while smoking a cigarette.
ummm  :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

lynde37avery

dang! hope they recover ok.
I wonder if the mower deck is still any good.
Detroit WHAT?

Puffergas

That's what can happen when ya don't fuel your machine on wood gas.  😉
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

grouch

The reason I asked about the tires is that this reminds me of:

Wheels of Fire Training Video "Graphic Description of Dangers due to the Heating of Rims"

Don't weld on wheels with the tire mounted, don't use a torch to loosen stuck lug nuts. (Note near the end he talks about one documented case where the tire exploded 22 hours after heating).
Find something to do that interests you.

BargeMonkey

 I live in a very small town, known this guy my whole life and this was just something he didn't need that week, just had to put his wife in an assisted living home and was packing up the house to sell and moving out to AZ, he just stood there shaking his head. It cooked pretty good for about 20mins,I think the tires went off with a hiss, 😂 if it hadn't been so wet it would have turned into a serious problem. The worst part was the one guy was burned pretty good, we call the ambulance, find out that another local resident had just committed suicide, ambulance starts heading our way and they leave to go pick up that guys mother who had a medical issue because of the news, yeah it was one of those days. This was just 2 older guys in a hurry to get the grass cut and an accident, alot of people don't have respect or common sense around gas/fuel.

enigmaT120

I wish I could say I've never filled a hot mower.  Nothing happened, but still isn't running out of gas just a good excuse for a break?  No worries now, I got a Ryobi electric rider. 

...though I have seen a car battery explode.  Not sure why it did that.  I think the guy attaching the jumper cables did it wrong.
Ed Miller
Falls City, Or

grouch

Quote from: enigmaT120 on May 15, 2017, 05:52:36 PM
I wish I could say I've never filled a hot mower.  Nothing happened, but still isn't running out of gas just a good excuse for a break?  No worries now, I got a Ryobi electric rider. 

...though I have seen a car battery explode.  Not sure why it did that.  I think the guy attaching the jumper cables did it wrong.

I imagine there are a lot of us who have been guilty of not waiting long enough for an engine to cool before refilling. Luck runs out just like fuel. Maybe Bargemonkey's photos will prevent a few incidents and ambulance runs.

I worked part time at a service station throughout high school. One day a classmate -- a farm boy who should've known better -- came in to check on a battery he was in a rush to get back in a tractor. It was on a quick charge and was bubbling. Before anybody could stop him, he bent over it, asked, "Sure this is working?", and jiggled the alligator clamps. The battery blew up in his face. I jumped over the old car lift on the floor, yanked him to the running hose (I had been washing the blue stuff off the white letters on a new tire) and hosed him down for a while. He came away with just some acid burns on his face. Him being a young athlete with exceptional reflexes probably saved him from more serious injuries.
Find something to do that interests you.

TKehl

Looks like one of the tires may have went bang, at least as much as mower tires do.  The tread on the third picture is a wee bit away from the wheel.

Dad has worked tires for the better part of 40 years.  From mower tires up to large construction equipment tires that are changed with a truck mounted grapple.  Said he was always careful about cleaning out the insides of the tires since he knew someone that left a wood block in a scraper tires.  It rolled around in that big old tire all day, got hot, caught fire, and killed the operator when it let go.

I do wish those little riders had a bigger tank.  It's 3-5 tanks for my yard.  Not as much of an issue now that I have the Kubota tractor and mower, but I still use my rider for the tight spots.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

TreesLogan

Woah that tire exploding video is insane! I had no idea that it was so dangerous, glad I have never made that mistake. Reminds me of a video I just watched of some good ole redneck mishap. Gasoline is dangerous. Stay safe out there.

https://youtu.be/3RNwJfLGzlQ
When you wake up and realize you sarificed your passion for a dollar that never came. At least I am awake now. http://www.treeserviceloganut.com

loganworks2


Just Me

Quote from: grouch on May 12, 2017, 11:28:12 PM
The reason I asked about the tires is that this reminds me of:

Wheels of Fire Training Video "Graphic Description of Dangers due to the Heating of Rims"

Don't weld on wheels with the tire mounted, don't use a torch to loosen stuck lug nuts. (Note near the end he talks about one documented case where the tire exploded 22 hours after heating).

I used to own part of a paving company in Texas. We had a Cat 992 at the yard with those huge tires. The Cat salesman, Jack Fanning, was a good friend of mine and brought down a video of a 992 tire blowing up, no fire at all. Apparently they could get hot to a point where they started creating their own heat and would not stop until they blew. In the video they got the tire hot by running it hard, then they used a D9 to push dirt up against it, left the D9 blade up against the dirt pile and filmed/watched. After a time it blew, and when it did it blew the D9 back over 20 feet!

I paid more attention to tire temp on 115 degree days after that I can tell you. Those tires are about 5000# each. The film explained what was happening, but its been over 30 years, can't remember.

Skip

I sure cant find anything funny about it. ???

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: TreesLogan on May 19, 2017, 10:27:33 PM
Reminds me of a video I just watched of some good ole redneck mishap. Gasoline is dangerous. Stay safe out there.

https://youtu.be/3RNwJfLGzlQ

Wow, guess those guys didn't pay attention in chemistry class.  We were told 1 gallon of gasoline VAPOR has the explosive power of something like a stick of dynamite.  And this guy pours 5 gallon on the pile?  I'm guilty of starting a wet burn pile with gas - but I use about 1/2 to 1 cup and that includes a long trail to light it.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Chop Shop

Generally hot metal doesnt ignite gasoline.   Gas will boil/evaporate of of a hot exhaust pipe.
Gas usually gas needs a spark or flame to ignite it.

Did he spill it all over the back of the mower then sty starting it while sitting/mounting the seat making a spark in the seat safety switch?

Im not understanding how this happened?

Try telling your boss that the equipment needs to cool off for an hour before you can refuel it and see how long you have a job.

thecfarm

Pouring gas onto a pile to burn is not a good idea. Growing up we started many brush piles with kerosene or diesel. Gas will explode and than it's gone. Diesel will just burn and stay there and catch the pile on fire.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Chop Shop

It looks like gas needs about 500 degrees to ignite without an ignition source.

How can a mower get to 500 degrees?


He had to have spilled it on something electrical.

Im just not buying the "wait to cool to fill it up" practice.

grouch

Quote from: Chop Shop on May 21, 2017, 09:12:30 PM
Generally hot metal doesnt ignite gasoline.   Gas will boil/evaporate of of a hot exhaust pipe.
Gas usually gas needs a spark or flame to ignite it.

Did he spill it all over the back of the mower then sty starting it while sitting/mounting the seat making a spark in the seat safety switch?

Im not understanding how this happened?

Try telling your boss that the equipment needs to cool off for an hour before you can refuel it and see how long you have a job.

I don't know the specifics sequence of events in this case, but gasoline fumes are explosive, not just flammable. Gasoline itself can put out a cigarette. The bigger problem is the vapor that is always present above and around the liquid. (It takes some pretty extreme conditions to keep the vapor from forming).

As for how long you have a job -- how long does a person stay dead? I've done some stupid things to get a job _done_, but I can't recall a single time I risked life or limb just to _keep_ a job out of fear of a boss. I've traded time for money. That's not the same as selling body or soul.
Find something to do that interests you.

Ianab

I've had dry grass smouldering around my push mower before, and seen haymaking machinery catch fire because of grass wrapped around moving parts. That would be as dangerous as a lit cigarette.

I guess it's also the same as not allowing guys to gas up their bikes at the servo while sitting on them. If they NEVER caught fire there wouldn't be any risk. But one or 2 must have, and I guess the only thing worse than setting your bike on fire is if you are sitting on it, and have spilt the gas on your crotch.  :o
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: thecfarm on May 21, 2017, 09:16:38 PM
Pouring gas onto a pile to burn is not a good idea. Growing up we started many brush piles with kerosene or diesel. Gas will explode and than it's gone. Diesel will just burn and stay there and catch the pile on fire.
Yes, I've used LOTS of diesel to start burn piles.  Once or twice I didn't have any available and used a little bit of gas, soaked into cardboard or rags, so it would burn a little while.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

BargeMonkey

 I should walk up to the barge and grab the MSDS for "R-Bob" or what most people call regular gasoline and take a picture of it, dealing with a busted locomotive engine so I'm not really a ball of fire 😂 I posted the pictures because I figured it would maybe get people to think, again we live in a world of "safety culture". It could have been a little grass wedged in by the muffler, it could have been the muffler itself, I wasn't there to witness it but there was a source of ignition present, I'm doubtful it was the key switch or seat switch. I did the basic  program at the CT fire fighting academy, took the advanced fire fighting program in Norfolk VA.
Anyway, this incident generated a discussion for my father and I at home because 1wk prior we signed a contract for 4 large petroleum storage tanks to be built for us. Due to the new federal code changes we are NOT required to have a canopy mounted fire supression system, the manufacturer doesn't even recommend it. All new above ground tanks have to be UL205 fireguard triple wall tanks, and being in NYC watershed we didnt want the liability of a tank in the ground. The idea of one of the local people with no drivers license rolling into our gas station on his lawnmower to get gas and a 12pk of natty light 😂 replicating this scenario next to the store has now gotten us to order 2 large stand alone fire bottles with monitors. 2.5yrs prior we made the decision to start cutting back on what logging /excavation work we do sometimes because of the huge cost of comp /insurance, lack of qualified help. Just about begging the experienced local guys to come drive truck at almost 50 bucks an hr scale wage, but I offer to pay 1.00 hr over Stewarts / Cumberland farms and I will get to pick and choose from their qualified help, it's actually pretty sad when you think about it.

teakwood

When we burnt our land in dryseason we used 8 parts diesel and 1 part gasoline mixed together, that is what burns best and its not explosive. another company gave me a firespiller for that job, kinda funny tool. it holds 2gal of liquid and you just walk and the tool spit out a small line of fire.

At 1.30min you can see the tool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1QLdJR8Gk0
National Stihl Timbersports Champion Costa Rica 2018

nativewolf

teakwood, I do a lot of burning.  Our family is restoring/creating pine/oak savanah in North Carolina, sort of far afield from you but ....I use a lot of drip torches, etc.  Sometimes we just grab a rake full of tinder and drag that. 

I've actually been on the site in the video, didn't do the burn work but they are slowly but surely getting several of the Urban Forest back into shape.  Hard to recognize it but that is only a few mins from downtown Chicago, you hear airplanes very low coming in and out ohare airport.  Can't talk sometimes. 
Liking Walnut

nativewolf

Quote from: BargeMonkey on May 22, 2017, 05:23:23 AM
I should walk up to the barge and grab the MSDS for "R-Bob" or what most people call regular gasoline and take a picture of it, dealing with a busted locomotive engine so I'm not really a ball of fire 😂 I posted the pictures because I figured it would maybe get people to think, again we live in a world of "safety culture". It could have been a little grass wedged in by the muffler, it could have been the muffler itself, I wasn't there to witness it but there was a source of ignition present, I'm doubtful it was the key switch or seat switch. I did the basic  program at the CT fire fighting academy, took the advanced fire fighting program in Norfolk VA.
Anyway, this incident generated a discussion for my father and I at home because 1wk prior we signed a contract for 4 large petroleum storage tanks to be built for us. Due to the new federal code changes we are NOT required to have a canopy mounted fire supression system, the manufacturer doesn't even recommend it. All new above ground tanks have to be UL205 fireguard triple wall tanks, and being in NYC watershed we didnt want the liability of a tank in the ground. The idea of one of the local people with no drivers license rolling into our gas station on his lawnmower to get gas and a 12pk of natty light 😂 replicating this scenario next to the store has now gotten us to order 2 large stand alone fire bottles with monitors. 2.5yrs prior we made the decision to start cutting back on what logging /excavation work we do sometimes because of the huge cost of comp /insurance, lack of qualified help. Just about begging the experienced local guys to come drive truck at almost 50 bucks an hr scale wage, but I offer to pay 1.00 hr over Stewarts / Cumberland farms and I will get to pick and choose from their qualified help, it's actually pretty sad when you think about it.

You guys need some immigration.  Seriously...what is wrong with your labor market? 
Liking Walnut

luvmexfood

Something similiar happened near here several years ago. Guy fueling a hot mower. Nearly died from the burns. Like Barge said. Be aware of what could happen. If you have to refuel pop the hood up and give it a few minutes to cool. Good time to get a drink or whatever.
Give me a new saw chain and I can find you a rock in a heartbeat.

CarlR

The picture of the gas can reminded me...last winter one of my five gallon cans got a crack in the bottom.  It was full, or pretty full when it all leaked out inside the shed.  The fumes were really strong, a spark or flame might have created a real problem.

Maybe plastic gas cans aren't forever.  I looked at all mine and got rid of several.

Thanks for telling the story,  Carl
Deere 6410 with high tensile twine skidding emerald bored ash...

Gary_C

There are two very real possibilities for the ignition of gasoline in that environment. The first would be the auto ignition temperature which could be around 475 degrees and the exhaust system could easily be that hot.

The second reason would be static electricity that could be generated by pouring gasoline from the gas can to the tank. It is especially dangerous with these newer poly gas cans and you should always keep the spout of the gas can in contact with the tank while pouring. If you worked in an industrial environment under OSHA rules you should use a ground strap and a safety can when pouring flammable liquids. Most of the industrial plants that handle flammable liquids also require you to check your shoe conductivity and wear a grounding strap if the conductivity is low.

It is also especially dangerous to fill your gas cans in the back of your pickup, especially with a poly bed liner. If you do tempt fate, it's best to keep the gas nozzle in contact with the can being filled at all times.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

BargeMonkey

 I try and keep my verbal filter in place when posting, I only try to be helpful and decent, but because I walk in the shadow of a pretty successful business man I have to hear every day how much our insurance costs, how the combination of 2-3 large mistakes could cost us everything. We send our guys for everything, first aid/cpr/aed, MSHA, GOL, anything safety possible, our longest running employee at home now is actually the guy you will meet if you go do GOL -Logger rescue training in NY. I also work in an industry where I'm paid to prevent 5-7 other grown men from trying to fix or break something, had a nice meeting yesterday about how 480V 3PH @ 100A is going to be a life changing experience. 😂
Someone on another page put this picture up this morning and I had to, I don't know the true info on it, but was told it was from a homeowner filling up a hot engine on the woodsplitter, again probably a combination of ignition sources. 

 
Its not a lack of help problem, it's "qualified help" that's getting harder to find, we are pretty picky and guys either make it 2wks or 20yrs. The way the insurance is going in NY your going to see more guys go CTL / big mechanical because you just can't afford someone on the ground running a saw. We have medical insurance and can afford to pay guys decent money, but most guys don't see the hidden costs which almost doubles your "hourly" cost to us, comp/insurance , payroll tax, SS withholding. I had one recently I was trying to train, offered to pay his way thru GOL, get him his CDL, smoking pot and showing up for work when he wants forced us to actually go without someone for a while. We have a guy every summer just do maintenance, paint trailers, truck frames, busy work, the best guy I could come up with this last yr who actually showed up and worked every day was early 60s and almost legally blind. Every industry we look at has these similar problems and then the talk is to do away with even more parts of our local vocational school.

mike_belben

Too much welfare, disability, SSI and easier jobs.  Regulation and compliance and BS is driving everyone out of the real work that made this country a superpower.
Praise The Lord

grouch

Sounds like scapegoating and dreaming to me.

Too much ignoring international economics, unchecked multi-national corporate greed, buying and selling of laws and regulations in private, too much wishing for bygone times that never were.


By the way, what does any of that have to do with improper and unsafe handling of gasoline?
Find something to do that interests you.

mike_belben

More like too much DOT greed, too much insurance and compliance expense. Too many programs for employer to fund, too high of a tax rate on anything "commercial"
Praise The Lord

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