Trick To Cutting Stumps??

[plaindriver]

Is there a trick to cutting stumps off for stump grinding? I have about 20 left to do. Most of the trees are white oaks, and average 14-20" dia, where I cut the notch, maybe 42" up from the dirt. But closer to grade level, they seem to be about twice that size, and much denser. If I cut thru a 15' log, maybe it takes 20-30 sec. But the stump, shoot, that seems to take 10 min anyways, if Im lucky. My M.O.: I start sawing on the stump, get maybe halfway thru, then put pressure on the stump w/my tractor bucket, so the stump cant pinch the saw blade. Then go back to sawing. The cut seems to always be crooked, and goes down hill. Very frustrating. Is there a trick to it?
PS, yes, I am a neophyte.
Chainsaw wise, I have (2) newish Pulans, a 16" 35CC, and a 18/42.

Maybe its easier to just make the wedge cut as close to the ground level as possible in the first place??

First pic shows stumps waiting to get lowered.


 


This shows a stump that I had to cut from two sides cause it was cutting downhill, and when cutting, the motor/case of the saw started rubbing the ground.


  

[timeout]

 I have cut a few stumps off, but not for grinding. Mostly  so I don't have to worry about getting hung up on them.  The trick I have found is to circle the stump with your chainsaw. Keep the clutch side down.If you need to get real close it might be smart to dig around the stump to lower the ground level where your saw will run. If time is what you are focused on you may want to find a professional saw. I personally use a Husqvarna 266 SE with a 20" bar. Cleaning around the bottom of the stump also gets rid of the abrasives that will dull your chain up real fast.

[Al_Smith]

There isn't much of a trick to it except get the largest saw you own and a chain that has about two more filings left in it's usefull life span .It wrecks chains ,dirt ,stones etc .

The largest I ever took out was 9 1/2 feet across the root spread ,giant  270 plus year old red oak .I didn't do it in no ten minutes either ;)

[s grinder]

Plaindriver,the secret is ,big power,a sharp chain,and stay out of the dirt.I have a stump grinding business and use a MS660 with a 32'bar and semi chisel full skip chains,it has enough power to go right thru 32" butt,i have also cut down stumps as big as 60" by cutting it down like a piece of pie quartering it.A razor sharp chain is imperative,once it starts making sawdust change out the chain or sharping it,if not you'll kill your saw/bar no matter what size it is.Cutting down stumps and grinding them up here is a tough business,if i couldn't sharpen my own chains,grinder teeth,and maintain my grinder i would be out of business.The reason for the full skip chain,on a big cut ,it cleans the saw dust better.

[s grinder]

Looking at your stumps i would look at the morse at the bottom,might have dirt in it,i would take an ax and trim the morse where your going to make the cut.That is some big stump/butt you mentioned AL,would pass on that one.

[Al_Smith]

I spent 4 hours with every thing I own on that big stump .I had hopes of lifting it off in one piece but it didn't go that way .One that large is very rare and I've only done just that one and really don't care to do another .

It had to have had 1500 -2000 pounds of wood in it that I have piled on two pallets from 6-7 years ago .I should burn it in the stove .

[thecfarm]

I dig around the stumps the best I can. I have a lot of white maple that grow 3-6 in a clump. Those stumps are hard on a chain. Dirt falls in between the trees and dull the chain fast. Very common for me to sharpen the chain twice to saw the stump off. Hard to hold the saw level down that low. And even harder to tell if you are level. I have ALOT of practice and still have a hard time. I am claiming back an old pasture and I want to mow over the stumps.

[isawlogs]

 Cutting them lower to the ground first off would help you in your quest a bunch.  ;)  No reason I can think of to be cutting them at 42" off the ground. I usualy will cut just above or slightly into the bell of the stump.
As thecfarm said, it aint an easy task. I cut some low so I can drive over them with the tractor or atv, I have larger saws that I use for this. I have dogs on them and hook the dogs into the stump and rotate the saw into the wood repeat this till I have gone around.

[thecfarm]

When I'm up in the woods my stumps are a little bit higher than what I am clearing in the grown up pasture. The stumps are still low,because of my tractor and the way my Father taught me. The ones in the grown up pasture are just about as low as I can get them. That's why I said I dig around them some. And that's why I have to sharpen the chain twice at times.

[isawlogs]

 I was also taught the same, * any wood left on the stump won't do you no good come winter to heat with..... * my dad   :P

[Ianab]

Could be you have tension in the wood around where the roots start to flare out, and this is causing the saw to pinch? Will wedges help keep the kerf open? (in the same way as leaning the tractor on it does) When you get far enough into the tree, insert a couple of wedges behind the bar and tap them into place. Then if the bar starts to pinch, tap them a bit more.

Also there should be no reason you can't take the trees off at 6" anyway? Just high enough to keep the saw out of the dirt.

Ian

[T Welsh]

Its not rocket science! Cut them 4 to 6 inches from the ground, that way you stay away from dirt and most rocks. When trees grow the will pick up rocks and lift them as they grow, so stay high, a couple of inches will not matter to the grinder. I have rocked so many chains flush cutting stumps over the years that I stay high as possible. As I said the stump grinder does not care if the stump is flush or 8 inches above ground, they are made to grind into the ground and there carbide teeth take a rock hit better than a saw chain will. Tim

[beenthere]

When trees grow the will pick up rocks and lift them as they grow, so stay high,

Not sure how this happens.

I see where the ground around a tree will swell as the roots and root collar push out as the tree increases in size, but don't understand how rocks will get picked up and lifted. ??
Maybe rain splatter will cause sand-like rocks to splash up onto the bark?

[HolmenTree]

When trees grow the will pick up rocks and lift them as they grow, so stay high,

Not sure how this happens.

I see where the ground around a tree will swell as the roots and root collar push out as the tree increases in size, but don't understand how rocks will get picked up and lifted. ??
Maybe rain splatter will cause sand-like rocks to splash up onto the bark?

Tim is right. I find alot of big maples growing on rocky ground will grow around rocks in the middle of the stumps at ground level, and yes they do lift the rocks an inch or so.
Stump grinding is half of my tree service business and it does help making less cleanup getting the stump as low as possible.
I retired my 066-28" Stihl and replaced it with a 395XP-32" Husky. More power the better and stay  with a semi chisel chain, the old chipper DP Oregons are even tougher for edge holding. I just found some old brand new .375 chipper DP chain recently and only use it for stumps.

Always use wedges when cutting  stumps. If I forget my wedges, I'll bore cut into the stump and then cut with the top of the bar rotating around the stump. This jams chips in the kerf keeping the stump aloft preventing the b/c from getting pinched.

Another trick is if you're on level ground rest your elbows on your knees while you're hunched over cutting , this helps keep your saw at even height as you go around the stump, plus it takes strain off your lower back also.
Falling trees with the elbows to knees technique also allows quicker escape retreat if danger threatens.

Willard.

[JohnG28]

You might want to throw the shorter bar on the bigger saw if the bar length won't be much of an issue. Maybe a little more oil in your mix too if you have a bunch to cut, they'll put small displacement saws through the ringer.

[HolmenTree]

Is there a trick to cutting stumps off for stump grinding? I have about 20 left to do. Most of the trees are white oaks,
Chainsaw wise, I have (2) newish Pulans, a 16" 35CC, and a 18/42.

Biggest trick for you plaindriver is get a bigger displacement saw.......
Your Poulans at 35-42cc is not a good choice .

[Al_Smith]

This is what a 9 plus foot stump looks like after fussing with it half a day.

  

[s grinder]

Like AL,Willard,and myself have mentioned,the bigger the saw the better,stump cutting is one of the toughest duties for a chain saw.

[s grinder]

A lot of of suffering there AL

[Al_Smith]

 :D Oh that wasn't a big deal ,just a mornings work .Once the sun was over the yard arm I spent the rest of that day savoring the warm spring air and enjoying several beverages on my patio under a big umbrella .

[Compensation]

I bought a carbide style chainsaw. Its not carbide but similar. I have actually cut the tree and the ground at the same time. With a regular chain I would be better off blowing it up with tanerite. Mainly because I don't have the grasp of sharpening down yet. 3 pines gave me a issue prior to buying the new saw so I took Toby (d4d cat) and moved my stumps. I did have good luck digging a side and plunge cut then woller it out till the ATV could crack it off.

[Al_Smith]

Well now let me tell you about a D4 Cat because I have three of them .They aren't stumpers either .About an 18 incher if you are lucky and leave it high enough .Oh you can dig them out and leave a hole big enough to loose a pick up truck in .Done that too . ;)

[Compensation]

Well now let me tell you about a D4 Cat because I have three of them .They aren't stumpers either .About an 18 incher if you are lucky and leave it high enough .Oh you can dig them out and leave a hole big enough to loose a pick up truck in .Done that too . ;)

Hahaha. I get the blade by the roots and give her .....What years do you have? I got a 67'. As for the hole, well I shortly figured that out when the engine started to bog down and the top of the blade was under the tracks. Sure makes digging animal graves easy.

[SLawyer Dave]

While I agree with the above comments that more power and longer bars certainly help cut stumps, your particular problem seems to be with "downward sloping cuts", when cutting stumps.  I use to have the same problem until I was shown by my step-father why that kept happening.  With a good sharp chain, and a tree that is laying horizontal, you tend to let the saw do a lot of the work by letting the weight of the saw and sharpness of the chain "pull" the saw through the wood.  This naturally pulls the saw through the log in a straight and vertical cut.

However, when cutting on a stump, you don't have any of that natural "downward pressure", pulling the saw through the wood.  Rather, the operator will want to "push" the saw through the wood.  Unfortunately, bending over, or on one knee are both pretty unstable positions that naturally cause the operator to push the saw at a downward angle as it cuts through the tree.  This sideways pressure is what is causing the downward slope of the cut. 

The trick my step-father taught me for cutting stumps off low to the ground, is to dig around the base to make sure you have clearance through your line of cut.  Then start the cut off level, and sink the dogs into the tree.  Then using primarily the back handle, (trigger), pull on the back end of the saw, using the dogs as your leverage point.  This will put pressure on the saw blade to cut straight through the stump, while keeping any side pressure to a minimum.  As the saw cuts through the log, rather than pushing the base of the bar into the tree, or pushing on the top handle, continue to "walk" the saw around the tree in the direction of the cut, repeatedly using the dogs to continue the cut.  In this way, you will be primarily cutting with the front 2/3's of the bar, (as opposed to the portion of the saw closest to the power head).  This allows the kerf you have already cut, to  continue to guide your saw in a straight line.  If it is a big/heavy stump, then use a plastic wedge in the cut to lift the stump up and keep it from pinching the blade once you get 3/4 of the way through.  Using this procedure, you should end up with both a level cut and one where the two "ends" of your cut will meet, (no over or under cutting).

Hope that helps.

[Al_Smith]

[ Hahaha. I get the blade by the roots and give her .....What years do you have? I got a 67'.

They're antiques just like me and half my collection of chainsaws .Models 7J-2T ,5T .1940 ,1943 and 1946 .35 drawbar Hp .

Now stumps .Everybody formulates a method if you've done many .I walk the saw around in arcs rotating off the bucking spike .If you start out level you have a good chance of ending level .I might add it took me a little time before I could do that .

[KnotBB]

Instead of digging the stump out with a cat why not push the tree over with the cat and cut off the stump?  Just don't wait 'till the dead of summer when the ground is dry.

If your saw is cutting circles, i.e., downward slope, turn the bar over or have the bar dressed so the rails are flat again.

[Compensation]

Instead of digging the stump out with a cat why not push the tree over with the cat and cut off the stump?  Just don't wait 'till the dead of summer when the ground is dry.

Well two reasons. 1 the tracks spin that way and don't when I dig and 2 nobody has shown me how to. I am guessing you push up on the tree to put pressure down on the track. Another way I do it is rip one side of the roots out and push from that side.

[Sprucegum]

A D4 blade doesn't reach high enough up the trunk to give you the leverage you need to push a big tree over. Get 10 or 12 feet of pipe and some bracing to attach to the blade so the end of the pipe reaches higher up the trunk. Some where on this amazing forum is a picture of what I am describing - I just can't find it right now  :(

[Al_Smith]

Well as far as popping out a tree with a dozer it's always easier if the whole tree is there .Most straight blade dozers will pop trees but they really are not designed for it especially a little D4 .--but sometimes you have to kind of work with what you have .

I mean you can stump cut with a little saw too it just takes forever .

[HolmenTree]

The only Cat dozers [Komatsu too] I've seen successful for removing stumps was one equipped with a rear mounted ripper. Just like popping a Mexican beer cap. ;D

[Al_Smith]

They used to armor up D7's with plate steel and use a gizmo with a plow like thing that got under the roots plus gave a shove up about 6 feet in the air .Those dozers looked like they had been in a war zone after a few years of stumping .

Even that  a low oak stump about 36" in diameter would give a D8 a run for it's money . I think any more they just use a big track hoe because I haven't seen a dozer stumper used in years .

During the 80's farm land shot though the roof and thousands of acres of 10-20 acre nice woods fell to the mighty D8's .Sad but true. :(

[drobertson]

I take mine down close, and there will be some chain damage, but this goes with the territory I suppose, criss crossing and letting time takes its course is my method,  leaving them high enough for equipment to push over is an option, just left with a hole,  stumps are just stumps, not impossible just a chore, regardless, ones with grinders don't care, they set up an go for it,,, just time and money, it is amazing how long these rascals last when left alone,  I reckon this is where weed eaters come in handy,   

[Al_Smith]

Well yeah some of them can last a life time before they go to dust .I've got pictures of a cut made on my uncles timber lands that was felled in 1937 .Parts of those white oak stumps are still hard as a rock to this very day .

Fact one closer than that,white oak circa late 70's about 100 feet from where I'm typing this post that's about as hard as granite with the bark still intact on the buttress roots .

[gspren]

  Do any of the chemicals that are supposed to cause a stump to rot fast actually work?

[celliott]

I had someone tell me that he saves all his chains when they are down to having about one sharpening left in them, and he uses those for stumps. They're sharp, but they wouldn't last much longer anyways. Toss them when you're done the stump.

[Ianab]

Well that makes sense I guess. If you think you are likely to try and cut a rock, better to ruin a chain that's on it's last use and just bin it, rather than rocking a new chain and having to grind a fair chunk of it away to save it. I know some of the sawyers will save an old band that's almost worn out, or missing a few teeth, to use as a "metal detector" on suspect logs. At least if you ruin it, well you can shrug it off.

Ian

[thecfarm]

gspren,I have no idea about that stuff. But I do know salt will kill the stump. I cut a few aspen in the grown up pasture. I cut the stump kinda high and than cut a bowl in the stump and I fill that with salt and water. I keep a 5 gallon bucket with rock salt and I carry the water down to the stumps. I keep them full of salt and water for 2 years. I think one would do it,but I want to make sure. I don't need 1000 shoots from one stump.I did that with about 10 stumps. Deer like it too.

[Al_Smith]

If you just want them to disappear a very simple method works on some .Cut it low as possible .Wet it down and sprinkle a liberal amount of powdered milk on it .Carnation instant or any of that nasty stuff will work .Cover it with a tarp .In about week ,ten days it will have sprouted a crop of mushrooms which will in time eat it up .Takes a couple years .Lawdy don't get the bright idea to eat the darned things though .Hard to say what those toad stools are .

[thecfarm]

Interesting Al. I will have to try that. I just keep the suckers off the hardwood,maple, and in about 5-7 years the stump is all rotted. But those white pine will hang on for ever it seems. I know a red oak stump will and cherry too.

[bandmiller2]

Al,if their all running harness up all three D-4's with two of your friends make the stumps an offer they can't refuse. I've got an old backhoe with a lot of time can root out most stumps. It bites it no matter what you do then you have to dispose of the body. Frank C.

[stump farmer]

Something else to keep in mind is to be aware of kick-back potential from hitting a hard object in the stump, kerf pinch or if your bar tip is inside the stump. Specifically watch that you're not placing a leg over what is effectively the top of the bar while wrestling with the saw to get it to cut through.

[beenthere]

Good suggestion stump farmer. And not get caught kneeling beside the bar if the saw pukes back out of the cut, and along the leg just above the knee cap. Be sure to have the chaps on to save any skin and bones.

[deerslayer]

Cutting stumps is a great application for the old school saws that weigh a lot and don't have chain brakes, etc. The big engine, lower rpm but very powerful and torquey powerheads will run a very long bar. These saws can be acquired for a fraction of what their modern cousins cost. Examples would be Stihl 070/090, Homelite 750, McCulloch 125, etc.

The key to cutting stumps is a large saw. This is the biggest, hardest part of most any tree. Bigger is better.