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Hi, I'm new and need reality check on sawmill selection

Started by Woody Woodwrecker, June 15, 2006, 05:43:06 PM

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tcsmpsi

Hey Woody

I would do some serious considerations along the line of UncleBuck's thinking.

Those folks who are experienced and equipped to handle that size and type of tree, would most likely be able and willing to provide a whole bunch of smaller, structural trees for your milling pleasures and needs for payment or partial payment of your sitka(s). 

Perhaps any required permitting, etc. might be better equipped as well.

It would seem that you are genuinely concerned with your stewardship of the land and its miracles.  Perhaps the best overall application would most properly serve that responsibility.

\\\"In the end, it is a moral question as to whether man applies what he has learned or not.\\\" - C. Jung

Woody Woodwrecker

Hi tcsmpsi,   Yes, I am concerned with the land. I have pictures of the area from the early seventies where some of it was heavily logged and it wasn't pretty. If you look at the area now there is an amazing difference with the trees all grown. Luckily, I still have some of the old growth spruce left. I can provide a link for awesome aerial pictures if anyone is interested. You can see the same general area in the seventies, eighties, 2001-2002 and 2005. I also have other issues with Elk habitat. Another interesting thing is that there are Chanterelle mushrooms growing in some sort of symbiotic relationship with the spruce, so less spruce, less Chanterelles and I really like Chanterelles.
I'm not sure about the last part of your post. Are you suggesting that it would be wrong to use my timber for my own use if it could be sold or exchanged for lesser wood and therefore have lesser impact?  I sort of see what you are saying, but I plan on using for the most part dead trees or just a few live trees cleared for a cabin site.

jpgreen

Woddy- Jeff Meyer in Eureka demos Petersons too.  Don't have his number at the moment..  :)

Also where you need to be "Low key" being next to that park and all you really need to take a hard look at a swinger.  That's as low key as you can get.

All those elk over there.  Such tasty meat just laying around getting fat.  Someone needs to stir the pot a little..  :D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Woody Woodwrecker

jpreen, I haven't tried the elk yet. There used to be a restaurant here that served it and I hear that it is really very good. They have the Big Lagoon elk hunt next to me, but that is a lottery and most of the tags go to out of town people. The truth is I don't think I could ever shoot one. They are magnificent creatures, and even after seeing them many times occasionally I am struck dumb when I see three or four large bulls standing in front of me with those huge racks. Now if one of them would happen to accidentally fall into my barbeque pit, well, that's another story!
I should probably contact one of the Peterson or Lucas reps and see if they will come out for a day to demo the machine. I would be willing to pay for the time/expense or share lumber with them. I have a standing dead smaller tree (about 30- 36 inches) right next to a driveway that would be easy to get to.

jpgreen

Woody-

That restaurant is still there.  I forget the name of it, but it's where you turn off on a dirt road to go to Gold Bluffs Beach.. which is an awesome spot on the coast.

Those elk are from the giant Roosevelt herd.  They are more like town cattle.  I was watching them couple of months ago on the way up to Hiouchi for some steelhead fishing...  8)

If you get a mill for the big stuff, and want to cut some nice flooring or siding and save some wood with thin kerf Woodmizer, let me know.  I'll bring my LT40 up and trade for lumber.  I also been wanting to lauch my boat out of Trinidad.  I fish off shore out of  Shelter Cove normally.. :D
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Woody Woodwrecker

jpgreen, bad news! The restaurant was called Rolfs and not only is it closed it has been torn down and turned into more pasture for the elk. Rolfs was relocating at the Little Red Schoolhouse and sold his property to the park. Then the inspectors came out and shut him down over silly stuff after he put a lot of money into renovations. I think he got disgusted and gave up. There was talk of his son opening up at the new airport park, but I don't think that has happened.
How big of a log can you handle? Maybe we can find some smaller logs to try out. I'll be coming out for a month in oct/sept and maybe a weekend here and there over the summer. I'd be glad to share wood with you.

jpgreen

No Kiddn'?

These DanG county inspectors are killing business and chasing families out for the most insane things, and then the county cries because they are broke.

Then - all they know how to do is gouge more tax paying residents...  >:(

Building inspectors forced a family out of our county here over a deck. It got down to being a choice of paying tremendous costs (which they did not have the money for) or face jail time.  They left.

Is this America?..  >:(  What part of the word "freedom" is represented by this state?

Oh shoot don't get me started.  I get so angry, I can't type a logical point..  ::)
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Part_Timer

Woody welcome to the forum

You are going down the right path with the swinger.  If you go into the gallery you can see lots of larger logs being milled and doublecutting.  Check out mine, ga_boys, Troy, brdmkr, Ianb, and Captains.  There are others but those are a few that come to mind. 


I have had my mill pull away from me before but never try to run me over.  When you are making the horiz. cut I watch the leading edge of the blade.  You can see if it is starting to ride high or low on the cut ,that will tell you if the tension in the log is making it bend or if you are about to bind up. 

Get as much HP as you can afford. 

JP since when does it take you being mad  to not be able to make a logical point.   :o :D :D ;)

Tom
Peterson 8" ATS.
The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary.

jpgreen

-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

Burlkraft

Why not just 1 pain free day?

thurlow

tomboysawyer..................we'd like to hear more about this sawing topless;  can't really get the image in my mind;  PICTURES WOULD BE NICE!   8)
Here's to us and those like us; DanG few of us left!

beenthere

south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

getoverit

Woody, I'm just north of Jacksonville Florida, and would be happy to demo my Peterson 10" ATS mill for you. I have a 5' diameter live oak log that is 12' long waiting for a good demo day ;)  By the way guys.... y'all should have seen me hauling THAT log home on my F350 flatbed truck ;D  It took a 10 ton crane to set it up there for me, and all the air I could pump into the air lift bags on the truck to get tire clearance on the bed too.

Let me know if you're interested and we can schedule a day in for ya.
I'm a lumberjack and I'm ok, I work all night and sleep all day

VA-Sawyer

Wow, this is one serious group of sawdust makers. A FEMALE sawyer makes a comment about sawing topless and not one person offers to help her out.  In fact, I believe only one sawyer actually realized what she was saying, and he just wanted pictures !
I'm guessing that most folks here read 'topless' and thought  'hatless'   :D
VA-Sawyer

Jeff

Or they respectfully carry on with what they were talking about because they know that this is the Forestry Forum not the playboy channel.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

oakiemac

Woodwrecker,

Utilizing those tree for you own use will be a lot of work but the rewards will also be great. There is huge satisfaction in turning a pile of logs into a whack of useable lumber especially if it is for your own house.
My thoughts on your plan:

Don't rule out the multi-blade like the MD or Double cut. A swing blade might be the ticket as well but make sure they can cut a board wider then 6". Some of them can and some can't easily.

Go to the forestry show and/or visit people with the swingblade or other type saw. Seeing it run first hand is worth a thousand videos.

I think you would want to air dry your lumber first before using it. That spruce should dry very fast.

Also get a list of the other tools that you will need. Cant hooks, chains, chainsaw, chaps, helment, tongs, come alongs, loaders ect. This could be a fairly significant investment unless you already have some of these items.

The idea of subcontracting out felling the large trees is a good idea. Felling big timber is no place to learn as you go.

Keep us updated. Sounds like you are in for some real fun. If I lived closer I would certainly offer to help you out.
Mobile Demension sawmill, Bobcat 873 loader, 3 dry kilns and a long "to do" list.

Woody Woodwrecker

Thanks everyone for all the responses and advice. I think it says a lot about the quality of the people here when so many people offer to help or set up demos. It seems most think I am on the right track with either a swing blade or circular mill. I know of 2 manufacturers in Oregon which is pretty close for me. Also I noticed on Sawmill exchange an abundance of used circular mills in Oregon, so I may consider that option. I'm also leaning towards having a professional take down the larger trees and I'll probably start with the trees mother nature has taken down for me. If I go with a swing mill I am going to have a hard time deciding on an 8 inch vs. a 10 inch and I've started reading some threads on that subject. The length of the lumber I need will also have a big effect on the equipment needed to move them, so maybe I should not rule out the sawmill portability requirement so soon. I plan on going out to my property and start measuring up the trees and trying to assess what trees I would clear for the house/cabin sites.  One thing about this area is I am right on the Pacific coast and the temperature is cool year round. It rarely gets below freezing and rarely gets above 70 degrees. Probably 80 percent of the time it is within 10 degrees of 54 degrees. Also the humidity is usually near 100 percent. And of course there is lots of fog. So I wonder what those conditions will affect the quality of the wood (spacing of anular rings, summer wood vs. winter wood, sap content, etc). I also wonder how that will affect the air drying of the wood. I guess that is actually a topic for another section of the forum, so I should pose my questions over there. One final question, I have quite a few red alder trees and some of them are 24 to 30 inches, but they are not very tall or straight.  Does anyone have much experience with red alder as far as suitability for cabinet or flooring wood. An old timer here told me they don't really get any bigger than the larger mature ones I have here and they tend to die when they get this large anyhow, so I may consider taking a few of them if the wood is useful for something other than smoking salmon.  Thanks again everyone for all the help and encouragement!

doublecut

Welcome Woody Woodwrecker
Hope you are finding all the info you are looking for. We (D&L Doublecut Sawmills) have just finished a show in Ontario at bancroft . The shows are a good way to do research for sure.
doublecut

Woody Woodwrecker

Hi there doublecut, I have not been able to locate any information on the new swing blade saw. Any info you can provide would be appreciated.

Ianab

QuoteSo I wonder what those conditions will affect the quality of the wood (spacing of anular rings, summer wood vs. winter wood, sap content, etc). I also wonder how that will affect the air drying of the wood.

I wouldn't worry about the climate, it's the same as we have here on the NZ west coast. The species you mentioned are in their natural environment there, and the wood will be 'normal'. The Doug fir, redwoods and cedars have been imported in NZ and grow well here too. They are easy enough to air dry even in the humid climate, just built a roof to keep the rain off and make sure there is good airflow through the stack. We have problems with pine staining because drying is slow, but the more resistant woods aren't a problem. They will probably only dry down to ~14% moisture, but thats fine for construction work, especially in our climates. Actually its close enough for inside too, unless you are going to be running heavy duty aircon / dehumidifier setup.

As far as mill choice, the 8" cut is probably all you need. Most of your boards are going to be 8" or less, and you can make the bigger beams up to 16" by double cutting. The Peterson ATS or Lucas 8" will do what you want. The bigger engine options will just let you saw faster, your offloader may not think thats such a great idea  :D  You can set up and run the mills by yourself, but with a helper you can expect to saw twice as much in a day. You can either set them up with a simple log deck for the smaller logs, or wheel the mill to the bigger logs where they lay and set up around them. Easier to move a 700lb sawmill or a 7 ton log?  ;)

Cheers

Ian
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

jpgreen

Woody that red alder, or alder is the best for smoked salmon hands down. I also wonder what else ouy could use it for?

You asked before how big of a log my mill can handle and the specs are 36" diameter by 21', but there are many ways to odd shaped, and bigger logs.
-95 Wood-Mizer LT40HD 27 Hp Kawasaki water cooled engine-

KnotBB

The Sitka is probably not "Old Growth" which grows (grew?) in a supressed forest, i.e. competing with other tall trees.  I've cut such that was left after the other higher value trees were cut on the Oregon Coast and the they have very wide annular rings, like 3 per inch, which limits market demand.   Some call it "bastard growth"  and it's used mostly for white wood chips. And spruce is not very rot resistance so if it is a wind fall big chance of rot.

The knots are so hard in Spruce that they draw sparks from a chain saw. Was using a Mobile Dimension and the saw whould ride up on the knots and you had to tear the board off the log because it wasn't cut off.  The limbs make excelet fire wood because of the hardness and some old timers used them for fence posts. 
Spruce is tricky to fall.  The whole tree comes back toward the stump after it hits the ground because the limbs don't break off or crack when it falls.  Really awesome to see a 4' dia. 200' long tree coming at you like a locomotive.  Get a professional!
Spruce makes good framing lumber and finish wood  and it's a nice light color, but large knots can be a problem.

Steve
To forget one's purpose is the commonest form of stupidity.

thecfarm

Welcome to the forum,woodwrecker.Love that handle.Just like it was suggested,go somewhere and watch the saws in action and ask lots of questions and do it all over again.Seems like you said you had a couple years before all this started to happen.This is good.That will give you time to look and ask questions.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Woody Woodwrecker

Thanks everyone for all the advice, I've learned a lot. I've been watching vendor videos and plan on attending some shows. I may get to see some local sawmill  action here in Florida soon. I've got about three acres here with mostly pine and oak. My wife pointed out to me that a few of the pines were dead that I had not noticed. Well, I took a look and sure enough they were dead and had a ring of "beetle sawdust" arround the base. So I'm thinking of seeing if I can find someone who will come out and saw the logs up. I'm going to have to find out how many trees and the sizes. I'm also going to have to figure out what sort of pine I have. These are not the skinny, springy ones that blow over in a strong wind. I've learned here on the forum that there are at least four species of southern yellow pine, so I've got to narrow it down. Another option is to load them on an equipment trailer and take them to a sawyer. Other than maybe some fencing, a shed, or thick slab for a fireplace mantle, I don't have any real use for the wood, so I may try to find someone who will do the work in exchange for the wood. I guess more importantly I've got to figure out what to do about the bettles so they don't kill more trees.

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