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Hard Maple damage from Tapping

Started by ChadSeelbinder, January 12, 2017, 12:47:24 PM

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ChadSeelbinder

 I have 100 or so Hard Maples that are 18-24 inch, and they are very straight and have almost no lower branching. Just curious what type of damage does tapping  cause down the line when I go to Log? By tapping them for Maple syrup do I risk losing a ton of timber value?


Thx for helping a newbie.

Chad
The Earth, Wind and Fire flow thru my Bones

Wis Forester

You definitely risk losing a lot of money down the road in timber value.  Tapping results in what is known as mineral streak in the wood. This drops the value of logs considerably resulting in mostly grade 3 log. This is the lowest value and can reduce the log value from $1500+ per 1000 board feet as veneer to around $250 per 1000 board feet.

Don P

Although I've seen niche marketing along the same lines as blue pine... wood with a story.

Wis Forester

I do agree, some niche marketing is possible for tapped wood, but that is a limited market and usually goes with people that do their own milling and marketing of processed wood.

Other than that sawmills usually down-grade at the log and if they do niche marketing they may capture a premium on the lumber or product produced.  Also need to remember risks that mills take in accepting tapped wood, usually a good amount of metal in logs and many mills will reject the wood or not take additional loads from the same site.

Attached is a USDA Bulletin that shows a study on the losses of tapping.

bill m

Yes, you do loose money with a log with tap holes verse one without but you should factor in the value of the maple syrup that tree has produced.
Most tapping is done in the 4 foot to 6 foot range and the staining can extend about 2 feet above and below the tap holes. A 24 inch DBH tree can support 2 taps with an expected yield of 1 quart of finished syrup per tap. 2 quarts of syrup with a retail price of $18 per quart for 10 years is an expected return of $360. That same tree with a butt log 10 feet long and 22 inches inside the bark on the small end has 221 board feet. At a value of $1500 per thousand that log is only worth $331.50. If it is harvested after tapping and the value is down to $250 per thousand that log is now worth $55.25. Add that to the income from the syrup and that first log has generated $415.25.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

GAB

Some comments:
1. Some of my maple trees are so not straight that sap and firewood are the only possibilities.
2. I've had people ask for lumber with the tap holes in it.
3. In the 60's, 70's, and 80's we were using 7/16" bits to tap with.  The last three years I've used 1/4" bits and I think I'm getting    as much sap as with the larger or older spouts.
4. The larger the bit the more wood in the tree is affected both in width and length.
5.  The tapping rate mentioned in Wis Forester is very conservative especially for the small taps.
6. bill m I feel you need to consider the costs associated with the production of maple syrup in your analysis.  Yes it will be different for almost all producers.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

ahlkey

As a family we have been tapping our Maple Tree patch for generations.  In general for me it has been uncommon to receive number 3 on the butt log but rather number 2 or higher.  In many cases I just cut off the first 5 feet to get a Veneer log class if the overall tree length makes sense for harvesting. Yes, you lose value in tapping but comparing to $250 doesn't seem realistic to me either. So if your bottom number is reasonably higher you should come out ok.  Having said that Maple Syrup as you know is A LOT of work but if you enjoy it well worth it. 

bill m

Gab, I feel you also need to figure the cost of harvesting that tree. We are comparing what the value of that log is at the mill and what that syrup sells for on the shelf not the costs associated with getting them to market.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Ianab

Also, when doing your sums, the tapped tree starts returning money 10 years sooner than the untapped tree.

Earning $50 a year for 10 years, then $500 for the scarred tree is financially a MUCH better option than waiting 10 years for a $1,000 return.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

bill m

You can also keep tapping for more then 10 years. I have been tapping some of my trees for 38 years and plan on doing so for many more. Harvesting is a once in a lifetime deal.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

bitternut

Welcome to the forum Chad

There is a lot of info in the membership at this forum and the members are all willing to help. You have been given a lot of good suggestions already but what happens in your woods is ultimately up to you and mother nature.

I do not have any personal experience as a maple producer but I do know that maple trees with large crowns produce more sap. As such maple producers thin their sugar bush to grow larger crowns. More limbs and leaves equals more sap. Thinning too much can be bad and result in die back of the trees and windthrow. Your description of your maple trees sounds like they might be the dominant trees and might not be the best trees for a sugar bush since they are already timber size and high quality.

My suggestion to you would be to join the local New York Forest Owners group since many of their membership have had experience as producers and selling timber. In fact one member of the local chapter has a family history dating back to the mid 1800's as maple producers. Local people can give you a lot of info on the market conditions that are specific to your area.

New York State has a couple of week-ends of open house at many of the maple producers in March which would be a great opportunity for you to pick their brains of see how much work is involved. I THINK LOTS!!!!

Anyways, I think as a person that loves the woods you should go slow and join NYFOA. They are a group that also loves the woods.

PM me if you need any contact info.

ChadSeelbinder

Thanks for the help. Lots to think about.

If I was going to do any Sap collection, it would only be for a HOBBY and just to try it out.

I do believe most of the timber is Very good quality (Very Straight and no lower branches) so I have time to think about it.

I hope someday to have my own saw mill to tinker with, so you never know.

Again thanks for the help, I am sure I will have more questions.
The Earth, Wind and Fire flow thru my Bones

Ron Scott

It's usually a landowner's choice realizing that whenever a hole is drilled into a quality hardwood tree, the tree's grade value is usually going to decrease.

One of the first questions that quality hardwood and veneer buyers usually ask me prior to their bidding on a hardwood timber sale is "Have the trees been tapped?"

However, the landowner also needs to access the "nonmonetary values" that they may receive from their hardwood stand such as the pleasures received by them and their family working the hardwood stand as a sugar bush as a hobby or business venture as you desire to do. These personal values to you may be "priceless" along with any monetary values that you may receive from selling syrup.
~Ron

GAB

Quote from: bill m on January 14, 2017, 07:12:01 PM
Gab, I feel you also need to figure the cost of harvesting that tree. We are comparing what the value of that log is at the mill and what that syrup sells for on the shelf not the costs associated with getting them to market.

Since I do not usually buy logs I did not know where you coming from.
Thanks for the clarification.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

GAB

Quote from: bill m on January 14, 2017, 08:45:05 PM
Harvesting is a once in a lifetime deal.

Sounds like pork products.  Total commitment on the part of the porcine.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

John Mc

Hard to beat the price you could get form a veneer tree, but then a whole lot of landowners only THINK they have veneer-quality trees.

I'm not sure how you find the market for it, but around here, "tap-hole maple" flooring, paneling, and various woodcraft items are getting rather popular. I'm not sure what the volume is for this, but demand does seem to be growing.

If you are interested in sugaring for a hobby, don't run out and tap all of your trees right off the bat. Pick a few and try it out for a couple of years first and see how you like it. Some people find it very satisfying, but it is work, and after the "summer camp" feeling wears off, you may find you have other things to do with your time.

I second the recommendation to touch base with the NY Forest Owners Association. It's a great organization, and it's a way to make contact with other forest owners in your area who have already wrestled with many of the decisions you face.

You might also touch base with the NY Master Forest Owners program. It's an organization that trains forest owners to do outreach with other landowners. They can put you in touch with someone in your area with similar interests who can help get you pointed in the right direction, and suggest where to find good forest professionals to work with when you reach that point.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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