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How many board feet per hour on an LT40 hydraulic?

Started by MesquiteSawyer, August 09, 2014, 01:46:30 AM

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MesquiteSawyer

Hello everyone; I am going to ask a loaded question of the experts, so here it is... ::)

I am wanting to hear realistic production numbers for an LT40 hydraulic mill with a 24 - 26 hp gas motor and a helper to offload.  I know the numbers are very dependent on situation and setup, but I am just curious what's possible.   

A friend has 40 acres of very nice red and white (post) oak that will make a sizeable pile of clear saw logs.  I have a flooring mill that is willing to pay $1.125 for FAS down to $.63 for #3 common, all I can bring them.  If I sell those logs to any of the local mills, they will pay $.40 on a clear butt log and $.25 on the next two.  Is it worth the extra time to mill them, or should I just take the logs straight to the mill and take what they pay?  I have done a fair amount of logging, and have not seen a nicer stand of timber in the area.   There is also some very pretty white oak that would go to the stave mill, but I feel like the red oak could bring substantially more if it were sawn.  I sold my Baker two years ago, and am considering a Wood Mizer because of all the great things y'all have to say about them. 

Also, how many hours do y'all have on your Wood Mizers, and do they still cut perfectly true?  I still get hung up on the monorail design, but it has GOT to be easier to set up than my Baker.  If y'all promise they cut true so long as the band is sharp, I will believe you.

Thanks in advance for any input, and I sure do appreciate the information you all share with us ignorant folks so perhaps we won't be so ignorant anymore. ;D ::)

(Oh, I just remembered, the avg diameter of the butt logs will be around 18".  The landowner is a cow man and wants grass in place of his trees.)

Chuck White

My mill has just a little over 2,200 hours on it and I would think it cuts as true as it did when it was new!

I bought it use in '08 and the only time I've seen it "not" cut well was when a blade was getting dull.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Klicker

I have a 2006 LT 40 HD28. One of my best days me and one other person put 2300 bf in six hours. On another job with two  helpers I could hardly get 900 bfm do not ask. So how much you ca saw depends on your wood and help
2006 LT 40 HD

slider

I would say 3 to 4 hundred ft per hr in 1x if things go well with a helper.I have had some 3000 plus days and also some bad days.A used mill that has been aligned and serviced will cut accurate .Buying one that has been taken care of would not bother me.
al glenn

Magicman

Quote from: MesquiteSawyer on August 09, 2014, 01:46:30 AMI still get hung up on the monorail design, 
Generally the only folks hung up on the monorail design is folks that have no experience with them.  I would let that issue be a non-issue.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

pineywoods

Quote from: Magicman on August 09, 2014, 09:02:33 AM
Quote from: MesquiteSawyer on August 09, 2014, 01:46:30 AMI still get hung up on the monorail design, 
Generally the only folks hung up on the monorail design is folks that have no experience with them.  I would let that issue be a non-issue.
Magic tells it like it is.  Not only is the mono rail a non-issue, it has some distinct advantages...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club.Charter member of The Grumpy old Men

POSTON WIDEHEAD

There are WAY to many variables that will determine how many BF you will saw.
I can saw Poplar pretty fast but saw Cedar slower due to knots. Wide White Oak needs to be sawn slower but you can saw faster on wide Pine.

I focus more on getting a board I am proud to sell more than how many boards I can stack.
Plus during the day, my phone will ring from other customers and people will be stopping by the mill also.

So basically.....saw good lumber and at the end of the day......you will have your answer.

This is the way I determine my BF on my LT40HDG29.


The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

barbender

I'm with Magic and Piney- although other manufacturers make an issue of the Monorail design, it is a non-issue. If a WM isn't cutting straight, it's not because of the Monorail.
Too many irons in the fire

Ribsy

Engaged in tree work, tree removal, milling and and processing said product into high quality and well seasoned lumber slabs and firewood.

Dave Shepard

As Magicman said, the monorail design is a non-issue. If your mill is aligned, and all of your bearings are good, etc., then you will cut straight. The same as any other mill. Let any mill go into disrepair, and you will have trouble. When sawing lumber I am probably one side or the other of 300 feet an hour by myself on a Super Hydraulic. With a helper on a non-Super, I bet you will be at least that much, maybe more.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

giant splinter

Davids advice is solid and all the others are right on as well. My take is if you want to set your all time high board footage rate just cut the biggest cants out of the biggest logs you can get on your mill and set everything up with some first class off bearers using good equipment and you will at the end of the day have set your all time personal record for board footage (bragging rights included) as a bonus you will sleep sound that night as you will have used up every amount of energy within. The alternative is simply do the math and call it good ;D , Beams add up to a lot of board footage very quickly and four passes with a little trimming/sizing you will see the highest output you can achieve in board footage.
roll with it

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

backwoods sawyer

reading thru all the post 1,000-1,500 bft seems to be a good average to work from for gas engine the deisles seem to run 1,500- 2,000 bft.
If the day produces less look to see where you can improve and if you have better days look at what went right. keep a staedy log flow, don't get backed up with tailing piles and keed the wood moving away from the mill. Hour to hour will have even more veriables like old goats wondering thru, set a good working pace and stick to it but keep up on maintenace and produce a quality product. 
The mono rail accually has two rails (top and bottom rather then a left and right) I am running a 14 year old mill and it cuts true all day long.     
Backwoods Custom Milling Inc.
100% portable. . Oregons largest portable sawmill service, serving all of Oregon, from our Backwoods to yours..sawing since 1991

uler3161

That's pretty much the same mill I have. I only run it as a hobby, but if I were cutting full time I'd shoot for an average of 2000bdft/day. But that depends a lot on the logs and your skill level. We really don't have much for hardwoods around here, but I do end up sawing them slower than softwoods.

I've seen a few people post on here that have doubts about the cantilever. It's a perfectly fine design. Our first mill had probably close to a million bdft cut on it and never even needed the bearings replaced. Just grease them once in awhile if they are the greasable type.
1989 LT40HD, WoodMaster 718

Dan

Chuck White

My best ever sawjob was a few years back and if I remember right, we sawed 2,352.5 bf in 10 hours which equals 235.25 bf/hr.

We were cutting WhitePine about 2/3 of it was 1" and 1/3 being 2".  I had 4 off-bearers on the other side of the mill, and that really helped.
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

Delawhere Jack

Best production I've had with a 24HP non-super in red oak was 320bf/hr. That was cutting full dimension 2x8 in long lengths. The client and his sons and grandsons offloaded, and they kept me running almost non stop.

Milling 1x in oak with one helper, 150-200 bf/hr is realistic.

I had my doubts about the monorail too, until a saw one in action. Very clever design, rarely needs adjustment to the track rollers. My mill has about 4,200 hrs, 400 of those hours with me running it, cuts flat and true. Occasional guide roller adjustment, which I'm sure was true with your Baker as well. Occasional wave in cut when running across very large knots, but you'll get that with any band mill.

Chuck White

That open side, with the cantilever design is really hard to beat.

I don't know as I've ever really "had to" adjust my mill, I just choose to do so in the off months when I'm not sawing.

I go through the entire alignment!
~Chuck~  Cooks Cat Claw sharpener and single tooth setter.  2018 Chevy Silverado and 2021 Subaru Ascent.
With basic mechanical skills and the ability to read you can maintain a Woodmizer  LT40!

drobertson

It all looks so consistent on all the previous post my little tid bit could have been left off, but I felt compelled to comment. I will say this, if all the logs are at least 12" and bigger, they are ready for the deck, a lift is at the ready, slab disposal is also ready, and a good plan of attack with someone that can execute it, an 8 hour day could, and maybe should yield 2500 bdft. This said, the sawyer is not answering the phone, the help is not texting, or anything else but the task at hand, and delays which might come from break downs or log flow come into play. These mill will chunk out the lumber (very precise lumber) as most will, blade in log makes footage, period.  Chit chat makes for skant wacks. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: MesquiteSawyer on August 09, 2014, 01:46:30 AM

I still get hung up on the monorail design, but it has GOT to be easier to set up than my Baker. 


On the earlier (mine's a 1995) LT40's, the lower track rollers engage the lower rail at 45deg from horizontal. It does make it a bit of a brain teaser the first time you adjust them. It had me spouting some colorful language. Took about an hour to figure out, get them both just touching the rail, and then adjust them in equal increments until everything is within spec.

The newer 40's have the rollers engaging the rail horizontally. They should be less confusing.

I've only had to adjust them once, and that was probably due to towing the mill without engaging the clutch lever. That lets the weight of the engine bounce going down the road, which probably caused the rollers to move.

MesquiteSawyer

Well, thank you to everybody for your input.   ;D  I feel like I am a cantidate for stoning with my comment about the monorail design.   ::)    :snowball:   I was just curious if any of y'all had ever had an issue with the head flexing over time, and if so, how was it fixed?  Delaware Jack, your comment about the rollers helps with what I was wondering.  The two mills I am looking at are both early 90's; one has 2000 hours and the other has over 4,000 hours.  The Baker required adjusting as well; both chains had to be adjusted just right or it would sort of shimmy down the track. 

I finally got to watch an LT40 in action today, and he kept me busy pulling lumber the whole time.  I was thoroughly impressed with the machine, and in several respects, liked it more than my Baker.   (It certainly is very thoughtfully designed)
I will never doubt the design again, and the cuts were perfect.     

I am not out to set any production records, I was just curious what you all averaged with your mills in an hours time.   I think we sawed four pretty good sized cedar logs today and ended up with about 250' of random 4/4 lumber in an hour of sawing.   

Sawing timber here in Missouri is going to be a nice change from the mesquite I milled in Texas.   I am chomping at the bit to put back a stash of quartersawn white oak for a rainy day, and that cedar we milled today was sure pretty!   8) 8)


Dave Shepard

Not a candidate for stoning. It's just that the experienced Wood Mizer owners like to put those concerns to rest quickly. As was mentioned, it's the people who have never run a WM that have the issues. ;)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

drobertson

I think all the mills with comparable options put out with very similar results.  Set up and willingness to be productive,(in a production sense) is the most important in getting a maximum yield for a day.  I like my lt-40 for the very reason I don't drag back the lumber, and the accessibility to the cant if easy on my back.  Ties and large cants are just that, kinda heavy to deal with by hand.  Rollers and lift trucks a must. 
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Delawhere Jack

You'll sometimes hear about the "Woodmizer wobble". This happens when the lower track rollers are out of adjustment. I've experienced it myself. You normally don't see it until you raise the head up 25"+ to open up a large log. When you engage the clutch, the head and mast will wobble left and right. After adjusting the rollers a couple months ago, my LT40 is rock solid from the deck to the maximum height.

Probably the biggest advantage of the WM design it that there is no flex between the main beam and the log bunks. I started out with a manual mill with two rails and a two post saw carriage. Every time you moved the mill you had to level up the two rails. With the WM, I tow it in, drop the feet. get it reasonably close to level front to back and start milling. There is no twist to deal with like you'll encounter with a two track mill. That is a huge benefit for doing portable milling.

By the way, nobody will be stoning you here. Jeff runs a tight ship. ;) We share our knowledge and help each other out. We might disagree, but it is always civil.  ;) Or else there is the "Woodshed".

Magicman

It is also possible to raise the loader side of the sawmill too high and get the sawhead overbalanced.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Brucer

LT40, 28 HP EFI gas engine, 2400+ hours. Cuts as true as the day I bought it.
The first mill I ran had close to 5000 hours and cut absolutely true. The pole mill down the road had an electric Super Hydraulic with over 8000 hours and cut absolutely true.

I have cut 400 BF in one hour working alone -- 12 foot logs, 13-1/2" tops, 8x8 timbers out of the centre, and 4-1x8's off the side that were edged as I cut. I only did two one-hour sessions in a 7 hour work day. The rest of the time was spent bucking and staging logs, stacking lumber, moving slabs and edgings to the rack, and edging a few 1x4's.

I have cut 1300 BF in a 7 hour day with a helper - 10' 10x10's . We could have cut more but my helper was also surface planing each timber as it came off the mill (13" wide, 40 lb portable power planer). She was determined to prove she was the equal of any of the timber framers in the shop -- could barely walk to her car at the end of the day :D. We did another half day the next day and we were done. Someone else was bringing us the logs.

I average about 50 BF per hour, day-in and day-out, week after week. That's working alone and doing every job in the business: sales, log buying, log sorting, bucking and staging, chainsaw maintenance, sawing, lumber shifting, slab bundling, loading customers, preparing invoices, and talking to people who don't have a problem spending half an hour of my time to buy one piece of side lumber.

I've done way more than that with an experienced and knowledgeable helper.


Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

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