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Gearmatic 19 slipping clutch

Started by Plankton, May 07, 2016, 10:05:44 PM

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Plankton

Another gearmatic question for y'all...
My gearmatic 19 seems to be slipping the clutch all the time, that's the only explanation I have for then issues I'm having.

If I pull the handle back it will almost bottom out the lever and the cable will move with no or a small load, only if I pump the handle a bunch of times while holding the throttle down will it have resistance about halfway back and have full power winching. This also doesn't work everytime.

I put a new outer clutchband in around 150 hrs ago. The one that was on there was down to the metal on the outer edges. Adjusted everything, inner and outer band as well as the adjustable pushrod. Worked good for 80hrs or so, instant engagement and full power. Then it stopped winching in again.

I pulled the cover off to adjust closer and the band was worn almost halfway down from new...I adjusted it so it engaged good again bled it and it worked for another 50 hrs or so then yesterday it stopped winching again. I didn't pull the cover off because it was 730 and it had been raining since 4...but I'm assuming the band wore down again.

So what am I doing wrong here, no air in the lines adjusted as tight as it can be without winching in by itself but still doesn't work properly. What else is there to check? Why do I need to pump the handle to get it winch?  Any help would be appreciated found a clark winch for sale locally but can't quite swing the cost right now so gotta keep dealing with the ol' problematic.

coxy

sounds like the inner band is not working and putting all the pressure on the little band  what was the reason for not doing both (just had to ask ) if the inner looks like new it not working and the handle all the way back is the outer band is most likely shot again making the plunger push all the way out just a thought :-\   like I said in my post I thought I was the gearmatic king but I cant even get mine to work right  :D :) ;D

Plankton

Inner band looked not new but in good enough shape to not replace. Had about twice the material the outer band had. What would make the inner band not activate? That sounds like what's happening also probably why my clutch cylinder over extended the other day. Put in a longer push rod because the piston was coming halfway out of the cylinder.

You ever get your winch sorted out?

coxy

no     its been raining for a week here and to cheap to have it hauled to the shop to work on it  :) :)

Plankton

Well my suspicion was correct, up at the site waiting for a truck so I pulled the cover off, don't know if the photo is clear enough but the band is worn down to the metal on the right side almost halfway around.

I pumped the winch in by hand held it with a bungee and turned the pto shaft.

As soon as the inner band engaged I could no longer turn it, there was full contact all around on the outer band.

So what's happening here that all the winching is being done by one half if the outer band.

Everything turns smoothly I had that whole half of the winch apart in the fall to clean and replace some parts, I put fresh grease on the big clutch lever everything is turning nothing is stuck or seized as far as I can tell.

I would like to solve this before I put another 200$ band in this thing only to burn it out 150 hrs later..

I believe this was happening when I bought the skidder as well because the old outer band had that same wear pattern when I first bought it.

Plankton

Forgot photo:



Inner band is worn a down to metal for a few inches on the left side of the photo looks about half on the rest of it


coxy

I would put in a new inner band and a new outer band I know it a lot of money but think you will farther ahead  the outer band was grabbing way more than the inner  my dad would do the same with the brake band never put a new inner always the outer and get a few months out of it and do it again      on another note he would squeeze a nickel till the buffalo crapped  :D :D

coxy

what is the wire for on the dog bone by the brake band  ??? ??? ???

Neilo

I don't know anything about gearmatics, but isn't there a rod missing from the inner cylinder to the inner band, causing the inner band to rotate and the cylinder to travel too far?

ehp

inner band looks not very good to me , Put both new bands in

Plankton

I forget why I put that wire there it's wrapped around that pin. Something to do with the pinhole was worn and tying the pin to the band with fencing wire fixed my freespool issue not sure why.. I've had so many issues with this thing there all blurring together haha

The inner band is very worn, when I put the new outer band on it was about twice as thick all around. That's why I think something is making the clutch slip in normal operation, I think the wear on these bands is excessive.

I'm a little hesitant to install two new bands if there going to wear out in the same short time.

Unfortunatly it looks like my only option seeing as how they both are shot right now.

coxy

if it free spools good you wouldn't think they would be dragging   and just my experience it seems like when they get worn down just so far it doesn't take long and they are shot  I know its a pain but after you put the new bands in try setting them using 2 hacksaw blades on top of one another  most of the time one is fine but try 2 I have done it before when I had a rusty drum and other rusty parts just to help clean things up I run my clutch bands 18-20 tho the handle my be back a little further than norm

Plankton

Looks like I'm going to order two bands tommorow morning then. Quick refresher I need to pull the outer bearing and the clutch arm assembly off to replace inner one correct?

I destroyed the old one when I was replacing it hopefully the new one isn't on as good...

Ill check back in after there in and I've worked it for a day I I'll pop the cover off and see how there wearing.

treeslayer2003

Quote from: coxy on May 08, 2016, 08:58:28 PM
if it free spools good you wouldn't think they would be dragging   and just my experience it seems like when they get worn down just so far it doesn't take long and they are shot  I know its a pain but after you put the new bands in try setting them using 2 hacksaw blades on top of one another  most of the time one is fine but try 2 I have done it before when I had a rusty drum and other rusty parts just to help clean things up I run my clutch bands 18-20 tho the handle my be back a little further than norm
+1 i used to set mine with a saw wrench lol

coxy

Quote from: Plankton on May 08, 2016, 09:24:33 PM
Looks like I'm going to order two bands tommorow morning then. Quick refresher I need to pull the outer bearing and the clutch arm assembly off to replace inner one correct?

I destroyed the old one when I was replacing it hopefully the new one isn't on as good...

Ill check back in after there in and I've worked it for a day I I'll pop the cover off and see how there wearing.
yes you have to pull the bearing off don't forget to pull the little nipple out of the winch shaft that works the clutch  they are a pain in the  to get out if you forget and brake them off  been there done that  :D :D

ehp

I just went through this last fall, if the inner band is worn and you put a new outer band on , it will tear the outer band a part real fast . the inner band does most of the pulling , also when you pull that part off the winch {whatever you guys call it } so you can get the inner band off , grease the inner spline . Hope I got that so you can understand . If you grease that inner spline so the hub can rotate easy it makes pulling the cable out a lot easier . Most think its the bands to tight but if the hub is sticking and cannot rotate back it will put pressure on the winch in bands and cause drag . I learnt my lesson the hard way , I always put both bands in at the same time now

Plankton

Looks like I learned the hard way too then because that outer band was toast in a few weeks... ordered both bands from comstock but there backordered for seven days. I guess I'm Going to adjust in those bands and run em down to the metal till the new ones get here.




motohed

Becareful you don't score the drums to bad , as this will effect future band wear .

oldseabee

I don't claim to be any kind of expert on gearmatics, but if your bands are wearing on one side could be worn bearing on the drum shaft a couple of thousanths wear on the bearing on the opposite side of the winch could throw the shaft out of line with the winch case, not enough to make noise but enough make a misalignment. try using a pry bar or large screw driver to pry on the drum in different places and put a feeler gauge opposite might not be enough movement to see with the naked eye, or use a magnetic dial indicator.

coxy

Quote from: oldseabee on May 11, 2016, 08:31:56 AM
I don't claim to be any kind of expert on gearmatics, but if your bands are wearing on one side could be worn bearing on the drum shaft a couple of thousanths wear on the bearing on the opposite side of the winch could throw the shaft out of line with the winch case, not enough to make noise but enough make a misalignment. try using a pry bar or large screw driver to pry on the drum in different places and put a feeler gauge opposite might not be enough movement to see with the naked eye, or use a magnetic dial indicator.
even with new bearings you will get end play with the cover off the cover acts as a support  with all the weight of the cable the drum and the bands that shaft will still move up and down with the cover off

Plankton

Oldseabee, my drum does have a fair bit of play. I can't however get the inside cover off to get the inner bearing. I drilled tapped retapped and sheared off grade 5 puller bolts twice then gave up.

If anyone has any tips on that one would love to hear them.

I hope the band wear is just from the inner band being worn and not the inner bearing play

coxy

are you talking about pulling the drum if so just get a big hammer 8-15lbs and hit the in side of the drum where the cable is this will drive off the drum and there is a thin plate between the brake drum and the winch drum with a big o ring on it    the side where the ring&pinion is there is a key way that is funky looking and a pain to get out it holds the nut from backing off after getting the key way out you can tighten that nut to put more preload on the bearing hope this helps you if not call me ill give you my phon# in a PM

John Woodworth

I don't Rembrandt the length and can't find it in the book but the inner adjustable push rod is a fixed length, it was replaced by a solid rod, depending on what adjustments you made can change the contact pressure between bands, I'll keep looking, ask your winch supply people for the replacement rod or if they have the dimensions.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

John Woodworth

Excuse my spelling, always seem to hit the wrong buttons.
Two Garret 21 skidders, Garret 10 skidder, 580 Case Backhoe, Mobile Dimension sawmill, 066, 046 mag, 044, 036mag, 034, 056 mag, 075, 026, lewis winch

Plankton

I replaced my fixed length pushrod with and adjustable one because the clutch arm that activates the inner band wasn't contacting as per the manual. Should I put the solid one back when I put the new bands in?

Also yesterday my winch stopped holding, my brake bands are worn but not any more then theyve been since I've owned the skidder. Every thing was hot in there when I pulled the cover off yesterday could the clutch slipping heat the drum and make the brake bands not stick? That's the only thing I can think of.

I have a new pushrod and spring for the brakes rebuilt brake cylinder and rebuilt master control so unless they finally hit the tipping point of wear I'm lost there too.

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