I'm in the thinking process of getting a WM 250 sharpener. I've got a drag one now and not really happy with my results. Would like opinions on anyone who upgraded to one from a drag sharpener. I've pm Cuttingedge about wheels and fluid for it if I decide on one. I sharpen some blades last night and change the wheel on my drag to the white wheel to see if I get better results. If that don't work I'm ready for a change.
I sharpen litely twice, and sometimes if the band needs it I'll run it again.
Buy one of Richard's grinders and then tell me how you like it. You can use mineral oil for lube on the cbn.
I have upgraded from a drag style WM blade sharpener to a CBN grinder many years ago. I will never consider going back to a vitrified wheel drag style sharpener. Glad to here you are aware of the alternative CBN wheel manufacturers. I have been using Rixsaw CBN wheels for over 3 years now. Great durability and over all wheel life. A very high quality product. Not sure if you know there is now more than one manufacturer offering a oil cooled full profile CBN wheel sharpener. Ironically, I just took delivery of a new CBN sharpener this week. A CBN sharpener makes maintaining the exact tooth profile extremely easy.
Go with a CBN,
After changing my wheel over to one of the white wheels my blades are doing better. So for now I'll save that $2000 ;D.
Quote from: 4x4American on April 12, 2017, 07:53:27 PM
Buy one of Richard's grinders and then tell me how you like it. You can use mineral oil for lube on the cbn.
I'm kinda new to all this so I don't know who Richard is. Right now I'm in the shopping phase of looking for a sharpener. Just trying to find out what all of my options are.
Thanks
JD
Richard is Cutting edge on the forum.
Question for ones that have a cbn sharpener. With the new cover that wm has do you still get much oil mist? The area that I would use one is not very ventilated.
Quote from: xlogger on April 24, 2017, 08:12:06 AM
Question for ones that have a cbn sharpener. With the new cover that wm has do you still get much oil mist? The area that I would use one is not very ventilated.
I purchased aBM250 last year. Love it. I don't get much mist in my shack but I refuse to use that 150 dollars per pail oil that they say I should use. Been running Hydralic oil and it works great. Same wheel since I got it.
I order it today and got the wheel from Richard. Looking forward to have sharper blades I hope.
Good for you, 8) 8) The WM sharpener works well, When you see how good a job it does, you will never use a rock wheel again, Unless you want to skip it over water to see how far you can go. ;D
it came in Friday now to put it up. I got a heavy built tv stand with drawers off craigslist to sit it on.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/28470/wm_sharpener.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493583779)
I've had the BMS250 for over a year now. It is a superior machine. To the previous LTAGA shop series grinder. Never had a drag grinder but I expect to that also. I really like it. It is refreshing to get a tool so well thought out.
Once you set the pusher for a given profile all you need to adjust is the blade height to get the same grind each time. Each "star" on the blade height adjustment knob is about 7 thousandths in height. So if you measure blade widths with a caliper, you can just sort them and make a calculated slight adjustment with the wheel to go from one to the next making each setup very easy.
You won't want to use this machine in an unventilated space, imo. It should be very easy to rig dryer vent hose and small fan to exhaust it outside if you want to use it in a fixed location. I have mine on a Craftsman tool cart and just push it over to the edge of the garage and sharpen with the door open. The housing contains spray but a fine mist still makes it outside.
ps. don't turn on the power with the pump and grinder motor turned on and the grinder head set in the up position. You will find out why for yourself soon enough. ;D
The area where I was going to use it at is near the back of my shop about 30 ft from garage door. I was hoping that a fan behind it pushing air away would be good enough. A tool cart might be a good idea if this dosen't work.
I would think even a gentle air flow across the sharpener would move the mist away, that's what's happening at the garage door.
Any ideas where this parts go? I didn't see anything about them in book.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/28470/250_parts.jpg?easyrotate_cache=1493714594)
The one on the left is a blade template thing it tells you what profile blade you have. Not sure about the one on the right, almost looks like some kinda shield or viewing window or something
xlogger,
The black component is for aligning the motor arbor and clamp to ensure they are 90 deg. to each other and to also make sure the clamp/wheel surface meet at the correct geometry so the blade is being ground square in the vertical plane.
All (3) of the preset bolts must make contact with the front surface of the clamp. Once aligned you should be good to go for a long time. It is nice to check from time to time though. ;)
Thanks Richard, it looks like the motor is set at a 19° angle if I'm looking correct. I might give you call if that would ok.
Quote from: Peter Drouin on April 25, 2017, 06:28:43 AM
Good for you, 8) 8) The WM sharpener works well, When you see how good a job it does, you will never use a rock wheel again, Unless you want to skip it over water to see how far you can go. ;D
You might be right. I've sharpen and used about 5 blades now and they cut good. I've still got more to learn with it. I'm having trouble seeing the wheel coming down on the blade with the oiler housing attached to to wheel housing right in the way. Any tricks on that? I would think unscrewing the oiler housing would be a pain on each blade.
I've been using the new sharpener now for over a month and love it. Blades are sharper and last longer cutting. One thing I do when setting up the blade is mark a couple teeth with a paint pen just before they go into the wheel and watch them as they come out to make sure the blade is set just right under the wheel. If paint is off all of the grind I know it set right. Most of time I don't have to advance or back off setting.
I use ink to mark the blade to see how I'm doing. Just 5 or 6 teeth
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22511/DSCN2765.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1361145832)
And when I do grind, I like to leave a little bur on top of the tooth
Once the BMS250 is set to give a uniform, and certain depth of grind, for example 6 thousandths, the only adjustment needed is that of blade height. Until one changes to a different profile wheel.
Blade height adjusted higher for a narrower band and lower for a wider band. Either band is exactly at the same place because of this blade height adjustment, to the sharpener any difference is adjusted out by the blade height knob. One increment (e.g. "point"), on the star wheel height adjustment raises or lowers the blade by about 7 thousandths of an inch.
On the other hand changing the "pusher" to push a little farther forward or not as far, results in getting a uniform grind, but at a different depth than before it was changed.
So, for a given depth of uniform grind, the "pusher" adjustment is really the depth of grind adjustment, and the blade height adjustment is what controls whether there is too much back grind or face grind. This is opposite what might seem to be from the description in the manual.
Another way to say it that once the BMS250 is dialed in for a uniform grind at a certain depth (making the band thinner by a certain desired amount say 6 thousandths), then if one sees (by use of layout dye) that the back of the tooth, or the face of the tooth is not ground completely (either still red), then one corrects this by either lowering or raising the blade, respectively, a little, NOT by changing the pusher setting.
Like Bibbyman and others in earlier posts on previous CBN grinders, I have taken to measuring width of band before sharpening with a digital caliper, and adjusting the blade height up or down depending on what the width of the previous band was. If they are the same no adjustment of blade height is necessary. If the blade to be sharpened is thinner for example by 4 thousandths than the one before, then I raise it by about 1/2 of an increment on the star adjustment knob. I also paint 10 teeth each time and check that the grind is good after 2 or 3 teeth. Red on the back of a tooth, raise the band a little more. It is difficult to measure blade width exactly with a caliper because one has to measure the narrowest part of the gullet and also hold the caliper at exactly the same 90 degree angle to get it right. If I sort blades roughly by width first then these adjustments are very minor and the entire setup time blade to blade is probably less than a minute, with pretty high success rate that the blade gets sharpened properly without further attention.
When using a digital caliper one can also check the actual depth of grind (before and after grinding, i.e. outgoing tooth vs. incoming tooth. This changes when going back and forth between wheels because one has to change the pusher setting for the new wheel.
My comments apply only to the BMS250, not to the LTAGA shop series grinder. The adjustments differ on the latter.
I hope this is useful to anyone operating the BMS250. Took me a while to see these things and to appreciate how well designed the BMS250 is.
Quote from: xlogger on May 09, 2017, 01:37:55 PM
Quote from: Peter Drouin on April 25, 2017, 06:28:43 AM
Good for you, 8) 8) The WM sharpener works well, When you see how good a job it does, you will never use a rock wheel again, Unless you want to skip it over water to see how far you can go. ;D
You might be right. I've sharpen and used about 5 blades now and they cut good. I've still got more to learn with it. I'm having trouble seeing the wheel coming down on the blade with the oiler housing attached to to wheel housing right in the way. Any tricks on that? I would think unscrewing the oiler housing would be a pain on each blade.
I use a bright little LED flashlight. I open the cover and look at the tooth from the left side down low. There is a vantage point where the tooth can be seen. Best to flip off the advance and especially the oil before opening the cover.
I also like to look at the face after I sharpen the blade while it goes by.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22511/10-17-15_004.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1445125923)
See all the light on the left, that's from 2 work lights. [Halogen] handing from the ceiling.
With that you can see it all.
Looking at the face of the tooth you will see the point of the tooth.
(https://forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/22511/DSCN2762.JPG?easyrotate_cache=1361145743)
A better pix of the face, left, of the pencil.
One thing that the filer at the grade mill showed me to check how good you have it is you get the blade so it's on a long straight run then you take a little mirror and line it up so it's looking down the tips of all the teeth and they should all make a straight line or something like that. I think he said he does like 7-8 passes on a blade with the grinder. I asked him why they don't use a cbn and he said ahhh that stuff is for blades that need crazy accuracy he says ohh just the regular turn of the century old technology plunge grinders do a fine job he was going on an old boy rant lol
Thanks all for the help and advice. I know there is more to learn on the sharpener but I'm really happy with the results I've got. TTimbers, what you said does sound right, I'll remember that next time I think it needs adjusting.
i went down to sharpen a few blades this morning and decide on cleaning out metal. I did lift the pump motor up and check on it, couldn't see anything there. After cleaning the pump ran but would not pump oil thru the line. I added some oil just in case but still no luck. Anyone had this problem before?
Quote from: xlogger on November 11, 2017, 09:26:53 AM
i went down to sharpen a few blades this morning and decide on cleaning out metal. I did lift the pump motor up and check on it, couldn't see anything there. After cleaning the pump ran but would not pump oil thru the line. I added some oil just in case but still no luck. Anyone had this problem before?
If it's a brush DC motor it could be running backward if wired wrong.
The pump can lose its prime. Either disconnect the hose from the pump and let it fill with oil, or figure a way to suck on the end of the hose to draw oil up through the pump.
How many times can a blade (1 1/4") be sharpened?
I have always sent my blades to WM to be sharpened. With shipping almost $10/blade, I would have to send out 450 blades to equal the cost of the sharpener and setter combo (Im guessing $4500 by the time shipping, wheel, oil, and what ever else). A few mentioned getting sharper longer lasting blades with this setup. Im sure I would sharpen more often if I had my own sharpener, no more pushing through the last cuts trying to get a few more cuts on the blade before I had to send it out. Just curious, how many sharpening do you folks do in a year?
I walk by it on the way in today and look at it again. Cut it on and it work fine :o
From the amount of metal I remove maybe 8-12 times. Most of mine break or hit metal and get trashed usually before they lose 0.1" in width.
I usually get 10-12 sharpenings per band, once in a while I'll get as many as 20! Not necessarily a full-profile sharpening, just so the tooth is sharp and I don't get overly concerned with the gullet. I saw mostly White Pine and Hemlock and average around 800 bf before I see a need to change the blade!
I bought my sharpener and setter in June of 2009 and by mid 2010 it had amortized out and I considered it paid off. In reaching this point, I had sharpened 350 blades (mostly mine), that was guestimating a sharpening fee of $7.00 per band.