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Wood-Mizer Asked To Leave Area!!!!

Started by macurtis, June 19, 2002, 05:56:06 PM

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macurtis

 :)  For the last three days I have been milling in a subdivision
that has houses that range from one million and up in price range.
Some how the word got around that some body was cutting
lumber with a sawmill. That blew their minds. We have had
a steady stream of folks, owners,construction workers and
city workers to stop by. Of course all wanted a card.
A few workers came to the site and ate lunch. One construction
forman was looking for his crew, they were all watching me
cutting lumber. The city inspector wanted to know when I
would be through, because the streets were blocked with
cars and trucks.He was just kidding---That Wood-Mizer sure
does draw a crowed!!!!!!!!!!

CHARLIE

I bet you left your peas at home.....  Otherwise you could've put some of those onlookers to work offbearing for you. ;D
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

woodman

   A photo is werth a thousand words but seeing orange work is priceless. You will have plenty of work from now on.
Jim Cripanuk

Bibbyman

It always amazes me that there are so many people find entertainment in watching someone work.  :o

If I were elected president,  I think I could solve the unemployment problem.  Looks like any time you see a utility worker up a pole or patching a hole in the pavement or repairing a water line,  there are two people leaning on a shovel handle watching them.  If we could just give one of their jobs to someone that was otherwise unemployable, then everyone would have a job.

One of my cousins works for the county road maintenance.  He says they have a PU setting in the maintenance shed that is several years old but only has a few thousand miles on it.  It's for the mechanics to use to go get parts.  But since all the parts supply places will deliver its hardly ever used.  He says the paint is worn off the top of the bed and around the hood from the guys leaning on it all day long drinking coffee and talking.

Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

DaveA

Bibbyman......You don't realize how close to the truth what your cousin has told you is.  I just happen to be a County Commissioner (Personnel Committee Chairman for one) and have had the opportunity to "review" many county workers daily routines, etc.  The Highway shop personnel have NO MONOPOLY on leaning and talking.  

Which reminds me of a recent story the Highway Commissioner told me.....Seems when he was a "working stiff", he and his crew were sent out to do some work.  They all got into the truck, drove out to the site and surprisingly, were ready to go to work.  The then foreman, went to get the tools ready for the job, thus finding they had left the shovels in the shop.  He quickly stated, "Looks like you're all going to have to lean on each other while I got back and get the shovels."  :D  :D  :D

Live every day to it's fullest.  It may be you last.

CHARLIE

Unemployment is an interesting topic. Their are those that are unemployed and would work but have no skills or education. Their are those that are unemployed because they got caught in "downsizing" crunches and can't find a comparable job with comparable pay to support their house payments, car payments and family. There are those that are unemployed because of medical problems and there are those that are unemployed by choice. They would rather leech off the system than work.  The government only knows about the unemployed that are drawing "unemployment checks".  Once a person has drawn all the "unemployment checks" they are allowed, the government doesn't count them as unemployed anymore, even though they are. So the government's unemployment percentages really don't give an accurate reflection of how many people are really unemployed.

I'm an advocate of "Work to receive welfare".  I don't mind someone getting a welfare check for a short time so they can "get back on their feet." and I don't mind paying welfare to someone that is medically unfit to work. I would love to see people that receive a welfare check pick up paper, rake, cut grass, trim hedges, etc for 1/2 a day and then learn a trade for the rest of the day so they can be employable.

Now, the other subject is concerning the employed that don't give a good day's work for a day's pay.  I blame that problem on poor management. Managers that are managing from their butts (sit at their desk or go to meetings all day) instead of seeing how thier employees are doing.  If a manager visited a worksite and saw most of the workers "leaning on a shovel", taking too long for lunch, etc. then he/she should have a good talk with the foreman. After that, if it happened again, get a new foreman. The majority of the people will work if they know what is expected of them and know that their boss supports them and will treat them fairly but will also pull them up short if they goof off. So when you see a crew standing around doing nothing, blame the manager.

I have to quit now.....I can't find a taller soapbox. Dang it! I hate that! ???          
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Bibbyman

Get off that soapbox Charlie and let me on.

For every person I've seen without a job,  I've seen one that is in much worse condition working their butts off.  One example;  A couple of years ago I was visiting with a neighbor and noticed a log truck pulling through a gate just a little ways down the road.  I cut our conversation short to go down and seized the moment to talk to the logger.  The man was in retched shape.  It would be hard to tell how old he was but probably over 50.  One leg was noticeably shorter and practically useless.  His overall condition besides his crippled leg was poor at best.  He closed the gate and made a fall towards the truck to catch hold of the side of the bed and worked his way along side to the cab.  I latter learned he used his Stihl 066 chainsaw like a crutch to get around.

We visited a while - talking logging business.  He lived about 75 miles east of there and also had a farm and cattle.  He said he'd get up at 3:00 am and feed his cattle then come to the log site and cut 2500 BF of oak a day and then deliver it to a mill that was some 75 miles in the other direction.  Because it was government land he was cutting on,  he had to shorten the stumps and slash the tops to no higher than 3' and pull any hanging branches from trees.  He worked alone and usually got home later than 9:00pm.

His only complaint was that the insurance and maintenance for his log truck was eating up any money he made.

Makes you real compassionate to a young, healthy person who won't take a job at Wal-Mart,  Casey's or in a factory because it's beneath their dignity.

As for people caught in a downsize,  many have rebounded nicely and a few have excelled by starting their own business.  Those who have floundered are those who tend to be stuck in a rut and only see themselves "calibrating doohickeys" or whatever they did for 25 years and are not flexible to new opportunities.  (Making a general observation here - not a conclusive expert testimony.)
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

macurtis

 :)  Have you ever noticed the different angles people
position themselves in to look at your sawmill. Some
squat, stand, bend over, and then they circle the mill
to get abetter look. As far as having the peas, I did not
need any. The man I was cutting for was paying two
workers plus my hired help. So far we have cut about
2900bf of red oak and have about 1000 more to cut.
I asked him what he was going to do with the lumber,
he said he did not know , and if i wanted some to take all I wanted.  He just could not stand to see those trees cut up
and hauled to the dump.

Bro. Noble

Soap Box Part Three

     Boy you guys are getting my blood pressure up!  Not because I disagree but because that is also a pet peeve of mine.

    The road in front of my house goes to Bryant Creek.  I see all kinds of traffic on week days of people going fishing when they should be working.  Some of them I know to be drawing disability and I wonder how they manage to unload and load their boats.

     A friend of mine had a son who could only use one arm and his brain.  He ran a feed store with the help of one employee.  His Dad took him to work of a morning and picked him up of an evening.  Every thing would have gone smoothly if they had not used the building next to the feed store to distribute commodity foods.  The Dad was pretty bad to tell some of the commodity reciepients what was on his mind.  The son died one Christmas Eve.  I  asked the Dad if there was anything I could do to help them.  He said he would appreciate it if I could help him straighten our the registration papers on their cattle and their farm records.  The son had done all of that for him.

     As far as people not putting in a full days work being the falt of management,  I agree except I've seen some situations where management has their hands tied.  At one time I worked in a foundry where we were required to jion the union.  There was a probationary period before you joined the union and where the company could fire you for not working.  After joining the union,  you had to be caught stealing, get drunk on the job etc. before the company could fire you.  I got chewed out twice while working there.  There were only two of us on our crew.  The other was sick an two occasions and I finished the work by myself.  I was instructed by the union steward ( not very politely) that when half the crew was gone only half the work should be done.  My inconsideration could result in the job being classified as a one man job therby knocking someone out of a job!

     The other case I have observed is in the school tenure laws.  In my opinion this is one of several big problems in  our educational system.  In our state, a teacher is on probation for three years during which time the school doesn't have to rehire them if they don't do your job.  After that it is almost impossible to get rid of one.  Some of them really take advantage of this at the expense of the other teachers who have to try and pick up the slack; but especially at the expense of the students.

     I've got to go take my blood pressure pill, someone else finish.
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Tom

Lordy, I've got two conversations going here. hmm
Work. I think that we are too quick to blame one's failure on another.  Managagements job is to coordinate jobs, parts and laborers.   Granted a manager can get rid of  laborer who is not performing but that leads to hiring and firing until you find someone that does what you like.  The other choice is to tell someone what what you expect for the paycheck.  If they don't do it then they are malingerers.

A person works for himself first.  A laborer is a company that hires his services out.  someone leaning on a shovel should fire himself.  Yep, I know that sounds stupid, but that is what self-esteem and responsibility are all about.

The sad thing about folks who lean on shovels is that they are, not only stealing, but, are failing to except responsibility for their existance.  It's a trait that has been with us through the ages and is one of the biggest failures of Communism.  Unfortunately we seem to be experiencing more of it today than in the past.  More and more folks in our society are depending on "someone else" for subsistance rather than taking the reins themselves.

Watching the sawmill.  macurtis you're observant.  The skinny ones are usually the ones that squat and the heavier ones are leaners. :D  The thinner ones cross their arms.  The heavier ones lock their hands on top of their stomach. :D They all seem to find one procedure or part that interests them and really study that one thing.  Usually they have a suggestion later like "if you put teeth on both sides you could cut two ways" or " you outa put a seat on that thing". :D

When I first started sawing in Folkston, the spectators would eventually have a picnic lunch and chairs and tables dragged up under a tree by 10am and the place would turn into a carnival as folks came and went.  Now, I guess because so many have seen it, the mill only draws two to four and they don't stay.

The only ones who bother me are the ones who want to talk to me while I'm sawing.  It never fails that I will make a mistake and miss-cut something.....or really get embarrassed by cutting a dog.

Bibbyman

I guess I could make one defense of those guys we see leaning on the shovels.  You need to take into consideration their worth in the long run.  Many that work on roads and utilities probably have a wide fluctuation in work requirements.  When a major storm hits,  they'll often spend 80 out of 100 hours out in it clearing roads and repairing lines.  I sure wouldn't want their jobs then.

Managers are gauged by how many people they have reporting to them and how large a budget they have.  It's not in their favor to reduce those under them by some percent as someone may get the idea they could reduce the management level too.  

Mary once worked for the State in the computer operations of the Health and Human Services department.  She got depressed at the number of pallet loads of checks she printed out each night.  In one night she printed out 49 computer form boxes of a letter that went out to women receiving money on the aid to women with dependant children to inform them their time limit was about to expire and they needed to renew their request for services.  All the government bureaucracy size is linked to the number of "clients" they serve.

Once in Georgia I was shocked to hear an advertisement on the radio basically soliciting for people to go on welfare.  It said - if you qualify for this program then you likely qualify for this other program.  Come on dawn and get all you are entitled to.

Our local school sends out letters to all the parents encouraging them to apply for the free lunch program.  They make it clear that you don't have to take the free lunches but want you registered as qualifying so they can get federal moneys based on the raw percent of the households that fall below an income lever.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Ron Wenrich

Here is a perspective that a State employee once gave me.  There isn't any incentive to work.  As a matter of fact, there is incentive not to work.  

This employee has been passed over time and time again for promotion.  Why?  Because she got work done.  Those that don't work get advanced so they are out of the department.  The State also has a fairly strong union.  

Large corporations have a similar problem.  They do reward their employees by giving them advancements.  The problem is, if you are a good widget counter, it doesn't mean you are a good manager.

Corporations found that they had tons of guys that were advanced, but couldn't do the job they were advanced to.  So, they just sat in cubicles, putting in their time.  They couldn't put them back on the line (a demotion) and they couldn't do their new job.  Guess who gets downsized.

Murphys law:  You will rise to the lowest level of your incompetancy.

There is a standing joke in our state.  What is yellow and sleeps 6?  A PennDOT truck.  (Pennsylvania Dept of Transportation).
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Gordon

Hay all I my paycheck is signed by the state. Sorry to burst your bubbles but all state employees are not cut from the same mold. In my maintenance dept we have some very good workers, some ok workers and some that are just plain lazy.

Plus the working conditions aren't all that great at times. Actually just walking through the front gate takes some guts. Lots of not so nice people live there.  Actually about 2300 not so nice people live there.

So please don't judge all the state workers by the lazy ones that you remember. Yes there are plenty of lazy ones no doubt. But there are hard workers as well. Ron's post hit the nail on the head.

Gordon


CHARLIE

Remember, I said...."The majority of the people will work if they know what is expected of them."  I believe that. They'll work for a "Hands on" type manager that respects them, but it's too easy for some to goof off when they know no one will know they are goofing off.  

At the computer company I used to work for, I've seen them take an excellent programmer or engineer and promote them to management. Most are lousy managers because they are too technical and not people persons. But then they stay in management and lose their expertise. The end result, the company lost a good technical person and gained a poor manager.  

Managing is a tough job. They have to earn the support of their people and support their people. They have to deal with differences in personalities. They have to recognize reasons for poor performance (family or health problems?). They have to make tough decisions that aren't always popular. But too many managers try and manage from their desk and never really know what is going on in the work area. To many "upper level" managers don't have a loop down to the bottom to be able to know if what their first and second line managers is telling the truth or not. A lot of lower level managers and staff will tell upper level managers what they want to hear and not of failures, because they don't want to look bad. So the "upper level" manager needs to have a way to check for himself or he/she will be making decisions based on faulty data.  Companies also move managers around too often. They should keep them in their position long enough for them to reap the benefits of their decisions. Many make a mess of things and move on, leaving it to be cleaned up by someone else.
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

RavioliKid

Kim the Teacher here.

I would like to encourage people who want to lump all state employees and all teachers and all union members and so on into groups to stop and think about their remarks.

People are people. Sure, there are some state employees, some teachers, and some union members that are less than sterling - but no more so than are in the rest of the population.

As I write this, I am getting ready to go to my second VOLUNTARY day of professional development. No pay, no lunch, and I had to pay for parking...just something I do because it makes a difference. And, I wasn't the only person there. (Acutally, today is just a half-day, but still, it's a day I could spend doing my own things.)

In terms of actual "down time", I have 2 weeks in June, 1 week in July and 1 week in August. The rest of it is going to professional activities. Some is paid, some is voluntary and some I have to pay for.

What ever happened to the "three best things about teaching-June, July and August?" ;)



RavioliKid

Tom

I don't know about those three months.  when I was in school, the teachers took that opportunity to hold down another job.  Some owned companies and some did service work.  

I'm sure proud of you for taking the inititive to be a better teacher and for the effort you have displayed in your interest to teach.  
HUG HUG HUG

Bro. Noble

RK,

     MY WIFE is also a school marm,  the best and most dedicated in our school system and that's not just my opinion.  She works way harder than anyone should because because she loves her students and believes she can make a difference in their lives.  The other person in her dept. doesn't do a blessed thing, misses school a lot (for some very creative reasons) puts down her students, etc.  MY WIFE puts in a lot of extra hours because this other teacher doesn't care.  

     Thats what I had in mind when I made earlier comments.

     MY WIFE isn't looking over my sholder now because she had some things at school that needed doing.

     Your comments on some good and some bad in every group is correct.  I'm sure that the other soapboxers agree with me in venting our disgust with parasites rather than picking on specific occupations.
milking and logging and sawing and milking

Gordon

It is interesting at times doing tractor work for people. At times the entire family will be out watching me work. The kids always will get out the tonka toys and play while I work. Nothing better than being a kid with a real tractor around.

It's the little things about jobs I've done in the past that I seem to remember. Like I was grading a yard so it would drain instead of pool water. I asked the man if in the area I was working there were any tree stumps under the fill dirt he had dumped on the site. His reply NO. So away I go just boxblading the dirt out. I hit a tree stump and of course stops the tractor dead in it's tracks. Throws me forward in the seat, glad I had a seatbelt on. :D

Well right after it happened I looked over at the group of people standing there. The adults had turned looking away from me but the kids were all busting up laughing. I bet it was quite a sight. He comes up to me later and says I'm real sorry I forgot about that stump, well it came back to me right after you hit it. We both had a good laugh on that one.

If you want to get a big group of people just bury your tractor in the mud. It seems then they will come out of the woodwork. Not that I've ever done that. ;)

Gordon

CHARLIE

I think it's neat that people would take an interest in what someone is doing, to stop and watch. But, I can't stand for someone to watch me work. I'd never say anything but it bugs me to no end. I do love to teach someone what I know though. It makes me feel good to be able to pass my skills on to someone else.

Now....about teachers. My wife has been in the teaching profession for years. For the past 10 or 12 years she has been in education administration. I figure, the amount of times she puts into her job, she makes about 12 cents and hour. Her teachers are very dedicated. Many are there before school starts, many stay after school ends, and most are in the school on the weekends preparing for classes. This is on their own time. Another thing people don't realize is how much money teachers take out of their own pockets to purchase things for their classes (stickers, pencils, etc, etc). Also, teachers are required to take so many hours of education in their field each year. This is on their own time and with their own money. Hear, Hear! for good dedicated teachers! 8) 8) 8)  

 ,
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

CHARLIE

I've seen it all now. I just looked out my window to watch a kid mowing the neighbors lawn. So what is so strange about that? The neighbor has a kid the same age as the one he has hired to mow his lawn.................I think the end of the world is coming. :o
Charlie
"Everybody was gone when I arrived but I decided to stick around until I could figure out why I was there !"

Jeff

Charlie, you don't have boys? :D That is typical I'd say.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Tom

Hmmm........if they do each others lawn then the parents probably pay them.  If they do their own lawn then it's for free.  Maybe that is the incentive.

Course....maybe that one boy is a real go getter and the other,your neighbors kid, is at the movies. :D

Then, on second thought, maybe your neighbors kid has read the story of Tom Sawyer and the Fence.  ;D  Maybe he is getting a cut of the paycheck for arranging the job. :D

I'm confusing myself. ::)

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