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Drying "Cookies" or "Rounds"

Started by Greg Cook, March 27, 2008, 10:54:46 AM

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Greg Cook

Good Morning All!  I have a lady that's given me a Red Oak log, 24' long, 36" on the butt, with a good bit of flare.  I need to ge rid of some length and flare anyway, and she wanted some "Cookies" cut from that butt end for a coffee table, bar table, whatever.  I was figuring about 3" thick slices would stay stable, and still leave plenty to flatten and smooth when they dry.  What do I need to do to help her air dry these?  I'm sure we need to lose the bark, regardless of what she wants, due to insects. But should I seal the cut surfaces? Just sticker and stack? I can get some large plastic bags and enclose them then open every other day or so to let moisture out, but not sure that would be best. 

I am guessing that there isn't much of a tendency for these things to cup and curl, bur more likely to develop radial checking.  What have y'all done that's worked?

Kiln dring isn't an option for me at this point  :(

Thanks,
Greg
"Ain't it GOOD to be alive and be in TENNESSEE!" Charlie Daniels

beenthere

The wood will shrink when it dries, and it shrinks more along the annual ring than across (radial) the rings.

Overcoming this shrinkage is the only way I know of to keep the 'rounds' from checking. There are a variety of ways that have been attempted in the past, none of which are guaranteed to work.

Drying it slowly will require that you keep mold from discoloring the wood.

My suggestion would be to make a radial cut from one edge to the center, and hope that the shrinkage stresses will be relieved enough by that cut, that others won't form on their own. Two radial cuts would be better than one, and three better than two, etc.

You are right, that the radial checking is your worst enemy when the wood dries. Avoid making any claims that checking will not happen....it very likely will.
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Fla._Deadheader


Get some ratchet straps and wrap one around each cookie. Tighten every day, Probably will still split, but, this will help, some.
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

beenthere

FDH
That is an interesting approach... ::) ::) ::)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

woodmills1

I have a customer who was using cookie rounds for display racks..............we tried every thing from an oven to a microwave to relief cuts on the back.........all took too long and they developed cracks anyway.  I would say that anchorseal and time is your only possibility and I bet they crack anyway.
James Mills,Lovely wife,collect old tools,vacuuming fool,36 bdft/hr,oak paper cutter,ebonic yooper rapper nauga seller, Blue Ox? its not fast, 2 cat family, LT70,edger, 375 bd ft/hr, we like Bob,free heat,no oil 12 years,big splitter, baked stuffed lobster, still cuttin the logs dere IAM

sprucebunny

I used a strap on a 5 foot round white pine cookie and it hardly cracked. It was stored under cover outside. 5" thick
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Fla._Deadheader


  There ya go.  8) 8)  One smart Bunny.  ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

  We did Cypress using innertube bands. Took some stretching, I'll tell ya  :o :o

  Should be photos on here, someplace.  ::) ::) ;D ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Dale Hatfield

Here is How I usually look a log for carving and it will work for a cookie.
Most always the very first rings are not centered. And the center will actually be closer to one side than the other. This is almost allways where it will have a major check/split.  So if you are going to cut it make it in the short path to the center. In a carving that relief cut will open pretty wide as wood shrinks.
Quartering the cookies would be the best . But after they dry they wont fit back together .They will have to be  re cut to get the 4 quarter to line back up.
Root  swell grain is pretty  because it goes all strange directions. So It can  add to the tension in the wood.
This might work. never tried but it just popped into mind. Cut the cookie then make the relief cut on a band saw on the short side, and strap it up and dry.

Dale
Game Of Logging trainer,  College instructor of logging/Tree Care
Chainsaw Carver

Tom

Another suggestion I've heard is to start with more than one cookie.  Make relief cuts in different places on each cookie so that they will crack in different places, if you are lucky.

Then take slices out of one of the spare cookies to fix the crack in the primary cookie. (after they have dried)

Don_Papenburg

I was told that if you were makeing a turned pillar out of solid wood that a hole through the center would releive the stress.  Sort of a wood pipe.
Could you cut a hole one half to three quarters of the way up from the bottom to help releive the stress in a cookie?
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

woodbowl

The heart wood is more dense than the sap wood. It takes longer to dry and shrinks less. The outer ring is like a doughnut and as it dries and shrinks, it has no where to go because the unyielding heart is in the way. Applying peg, lindseed oil or a build type finish such as laquer, only to the outer ring would inhibit drying and allow the core to dry first and hopefully shrink enough to allow room for the outer ring. The laquer could be sanded off later.

Relief cuts on the back and a ratchett strap could be the extra edge needed to insure the process untill it is stable.

Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Fla._Deadheader


Then, could someone 'esplane me, why don't THESE split ???

 
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

woodbowl

I've still got a few 16" cookies that I cut from black gum several years ago. I was delighted to find they didn't split on me. What kind of wood is that?
Full time custom sawing at the customers site since 1995.  WoodMizer LT40 Super Hyd.

Fla._Deadheader


REAL wood  ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

  I'm not perzaktecly sure. Could be GuanaCaste, Cenizaro, Tamarindo, or one of the 2000 other species down here ???

  I've got 24" and 48" and know of others, that never split. I'm sure the location has a LOT to do with it.  This wood is like nothing y'all have ever seen. Species doesn't seem to be a determining factor, for the most part.  ??? ???  Softer, lighter weight seems to split more .

  Most is HEV VEEE .  :o :o :o :o

  I'm working on some more, very soon.  8) 8)

 
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

bck

It is oval but was probably cut from a round log. Instead of making cuts 90 degrees to the log , angle the cut some ( 20-30 degrees )then cut slices. That makes the grain something other than straight up and down. they will dry without cracking this way a lot of times but will be oval not round.

brdmkr

I have been studying on the rachet strap idea and filling any checks with a colored epoxy once the cookie is dry.  My thinking is to show off the cracks rather than hide them.  I will likely route a recess in the bottom for 3/4" plywood to be glued into place with the hope that this will reduce further movement and checking.  I think that would make for some awesome table tops 8)
Lucas 618  Mahindra 4110, FEL and pallet forks, some cant hooks, and a dose of want-to

Greg Cook

Hadn't thought about letting in a piece of 3/4 ply on the bottomside.  That should take care of most seasonal swelling/shrinking after they're dry. Good idea. Still wondering about the rate of drying, though. Air dry in an unheated garage?  Or maybe sticker and cover it with another slab to reduce airflow?  Other suggestions?

Thanks for all the ideas so far.  I like that ratchet strap idea, Harold.


Greg
"Ain't it GOOD to be alive and be in TENNESSEE!" Charlie Daniels

beenthere

Greg
Hope you will take some pictures of the process as you move through the stages..
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

snowman

Heres a surefire method,never fails, I guarante it! First cut a 3' log,store in cool damp place. Every 2 weeks or so  depending on humidty level, cut thinnest piece you can off both ends until you end up with desired thickness.Ya never know, it might work. I'mjust making this up as I go along, killing time, trying to delay snowblowing my driveway. Snowed a foot here last night. >:(

Jeff

Here is somethig you can do for practice, and if you ever succeed, you can apply it to drying a cookie.   

Fry slices of baloney and keep them flat. The same dynamics are taking place. The only way you can fry it and keep it flat is to slice it to the center. 


like bck  mentions, cut the cookies on a bias. Thats why you see white pine souvenir plaques in Michigan tourist trap shops shaped that way.

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

crtreedude

Harold, that looks like Pilon to me - but I could be wrong. By the way, that pilon cookies you cut for me are STILL okay. They haven't cracked yet - but I have been careful with them too.

So, how did I end up here anyway?

ARKANSAWYER


  Red oak is going to split.  If you slice it thin enough it will cup into almost a bowl but what you are trying to do it will split.  You could drown it in peg and it not bust to bad.
  Cutting it into quarters and then putting it back together does work.
ARKANSAWYER

MikeH

 I have kiln dried walnut cookies cut at a angle and no splits all were under 12" though. I made several cookies out of a 140 year old white oak, lacqered them right away and keep inside shop. They looked great for about maybe 1 year then they split all to pieces. I dont think all the straps in the world would have held them together.

Fla._Deadheader


  Originally, we used 2 bands of innertube. Had to really work to get them stretched over the pieces.

  The last one, we used the ratchet strap.

  We didn't have White Oak, so, we used Cypress ???  Might not work for others. It was just a suggestion, that DID work for us  ;D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

jim king

I charge more for cracked table tops when I put in butterflies and people love the look.  After one or more butterflies I fill what ever crack or better yet cracks with sawdust paste mixed with polyurethane or fiberglass resin.

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