Best tree to plant...

[VT_Forestry]

Here on the watershed, we have a few areas that try as we might, we can't get trees to grow well.  They are primarily red clay slopes next to a reservoir that erode quickly, so something that would let us establish vegetation quickly would be best.  In the past they have tried loblolly and VA pine, locust, yellow-poplar, and some others, but all resulted in fairly quick mortality.  Anyone have any suggestions?  I was thinking eastern red cedar since that will pretty much grow on a rock, but we can't get seedlings.  I don't think anything is really ruled out, we'd be happy just to have green leaves instead of muddy water 

[Samuel]

A am far from a silvicultralist and am unfamiliar with the sites in your area, but in my experience in BC looking after MoF planting program, we found the lodgepole pine to be very tolerant in almost all situations.  The common mistake we found was trying to plant spruce in the low wet areas of the block, and they ended up dying out in a year or so, and when we went back and fill planted with the pine, they seemed to survive, even with their feet wet for a good portion of the spring.  Go figure...

Will lodge pole pine grow there?  I have no idea but jackpine is a kissing cousin and I am sure you have access to them I would think.

[Magicman]

Sit down and have a talk with your County Forester.  Your Extension Office or NRCS can point you in the right direction.

[Ron Wenrich]

I would be looking at species that are common along waterways in your area.  I would think that the species you mention would need a deeper root system.  I was thinking along the lines of sycamore, pin oak or silver maple.  They grow along waterways, and only require shallow rooting.  They also grow on compacted soils like you find in towns.  Saplings are easily available.

But, I could be wrong.   ;)

[SwampDonkey]

Silver maple, red maple, box elder, elm, black ash (not native in your area), big toothed aspen (I know it grows there, I saw it on a farm just out of town), eastern cottonwood, balsam poplar (not native there).


Most of the time you find black ash standing in water here, it grows very slow.



See water in behind the stem.

[VT_Forestry]

Those all sound good...I was actually thinking sycamore and I know we have a small patch of big tooth aspen near an old homesite here.  They've also planted bristly locust in some places similar to what I'm looking at and it did fairly well.  I think what I'll do is try a variety of these species and see how they do...they are in the habit now of planting this one particular area every year, so if I'm able to get something to take hold it will save a lot of time/money.  I'll keep you posted, might even get some pictures

[WDH]

On the site you described, you might have to invest some $ in site prep, like in ripping a planting furrow to get past the hard pan or restricted layer.  That can make all the difference in survivorability.  Evaluate the site to see if it has been degraded.  A soil probe can tell you a great deal.  If you cannot push it into the soil more than a foot or so, the site may have been compacted, thereby impacting the ability of new seedlings to get established.

[Wudman]

If these are small areas that you need to establish vegetation, I have a couple of suggestions.  To establish trees -- Take the time to make a good planting environment for each tree.  Loosen the soil with a planting bar / spade.  Give it a shot of establishment fertilizer (this will make a big difference on poor clay sites).  Use a mulch mat to help retain moisture.  Use a native dry site evergreen (Virginia, Pitch, or Lob / Pitch Cross).  Virginia Pine and Locust will grow anywhere once established.

Second option:  Lime and fertilize.  Plant Crown Vetch.  Let natural succession reclaim the site.

Wudman

[Ron Scott]

Be aware that crown vetch is invasive and toxic to wildlife.

[Wudman]

Be aware that crown vetch is invasive and toxic to wildlife.

Crown Vetch is naturalized across Virginia.  VDOT started planting it for erosion control back in the 1950s.  It is still quite prevalent on road cuts throughout the state.  I am aware that it has some toxicity to horses, but was not aware of any issues with wildlife.  I would characterise it as non-native, but it is not highly invasive as it is shade intolerant.  It is not going to spread like kudzu or stiltgrass....and it will grow on very poor clay soils. 

Wudman

[tstex]

I agree with asking your local county extension agent, as long as they are not both brand new to your area and right out of college.

You might also try to do some drive-by's in your area and see if you can find any other terrain similar to yours, then see if you can make a site visit and take leaf samples if you are not familiar with the vegetation you find.  Also, make sure you get permission or wear your BPV.   :D

Good luck,
tstex

[Jeff]

Crown Vetch is toxic to all single stomach mammals.

[Ron Scott]

Correct, ok for deer, elk, and cows but not the single stomach critters.

http://www.gardenguides.com/75912-crown-vetch-poisoning.html

[Phorester]

Where is this watershed located?  Your address is Blacksburg, but at the bottom of your page it says Newport News Water Works.

[VT_Forestry]

Where is this watershed located?  Your address is Blacksburg, but at the bottom of your page it says Newport News Water Works.

It's in Newport News, well closer to Williamsburg.  I guess I need to update my info since I graduated

[rickywashere]

willow would be a great option with lots of water /// or birch

[Brian Beauchamp]

What kind of slope do you have on the site and how large of a planting are you talking about?

[Left Coast Chris]

On spots that have a rock mixed with soil and even in decomposed granite (pretty sterile)  we have had luck with pondorosa pines although they grow slowly.

[fkarcha]

Trees are wonderful things, but they can't do everything.  Many other plants will be successful at slope stabilization; the idea that ALL species of trees stabilize, anchor, or otherwise prevent soil erosion is largely a myth.

I would look to other riparian zones in your area, that occur on similar soils, and take note of the species there.  Those will most likely be your most effective options.

[pinesaw]

There's a relatively new "hybrid willow" out now designed to grow fast and stabilized difficult areas. There's probably a nursery on the peninsula where you are that could supply enough.

[VT_Forestry]

we've decided to go with switchgrass and some virginia pine...the switchgrass has been planted in the past and is slowly stabilizing from the bottom up.  only time will tell....thanks for all the great suggestions, might be trying some of those in the future

[SwampDonkey]

Wouldn't the pine prefer dryer soil?

[VT_Forestry]

Wouldn't the pine prefer dryer soil?

The slope is southwest facing and fairly dry.  I envision the pine coming in at the top of the slope and the switchgrass stabilizing the lower portion of it.  When we head out there I'll try to get some pictures