Determining the volume (cords of firewood) from treetops from select cut harvest

[pinetree]

I need to know how to calculate the volume (cords) of firewood in treetops after a select cut harvest.  Can this be done by the number of trees cut, the species of tree cut or by the board feet of logs harvested ?  The number of cords calculated are hopefully highly accurate to determine a basis on which to pay the landowner.  Also what are current prices paid for treetops when we are providing all the equipment and labor to get the lengths out of the woods ?  Any and all suggestions will be considered. Thanks!

[bill m]

If you are salvaging tops for firewood after someone has completed a timber harvest than that wood is worth $0. IMO.  Around here standing firewood sells for about $10.00 a cord so working in the brush from the tops would greatly increase the amount of labor needed to process a cord. About 25 years ago the person I worked for did just that and with 3 people working we had to bust a$$ to get 3 of 4 cord a day. Firewood was selling for $100 a cord, cut - split - and delivered,  and did not leave much room for profit.

[Gary_C]

If you are salvaging tops for firewood after someone has completed a timber harvest than that wood is worth $0. IMO. 

Not in Minnesota, at least anymore according to the DNR. They are selling the tops for biomass with a separate agreement available and optional. The logger does not have to take the tops if they do not want them, but if you do, they are not free.

[clearcut]

I agree that salvaging top wood as a business is unlikely to be financially viable.

However there are tables / equations that predict the top weight and volume. These depend largely on where you are and which species you have.

Here is one example of Firewood Volume Tables For Red And White Oak in Iowa that includes values for top wood.

   http://www.extension.iastate.edu/forestry/publications/F-338.pdf

[Ron Wenrich]

Its pretty hard to determine the amount since a lot depends on how it was logged.  Some guys take more wood than others.  As a rule of thumb, we always figured about 1 cord/Mbf of timber marked.  Of course, a lot also depends on how hard you're going after the wood in the tops.

As mentioned, its a lot harder after its been cut.  Can't help you out with price, as it varies from area to area.  Terrain has a lot to do with it.

[Ron Scott]

We determine the volume of pulpwood/firewood cords  from the topwood by a computer program used by the Michigan DNRE. The trees are measured and tallied as either a sawlog or pulpwood tree and the computer program then determines the tree's cordwood volume of the topwood so that the landowner is paid for it.

We charge for all the product, but it's as Ron says above, there are variables involved in the appraisal and the more you chase the wood down in the tops the better you will do on the total volume harvest. The topwood is measured to a 4 inch diameter at the small end and breakage is allowed for in the program. It kind of works out to 1 topwood stick counted for every 3 topwood sticks assuming breakage, etc.

There is product volume in the topwood which is charged and paid to the landowner on a lump sum basis. The topwood can also be converted for chipwood volume by the logger if they wish to chip the topwood rather than harvest it for pulpwood or firewood.

There is value added for topwood.

[stonebroke]

Its pretty hard to determine the amount since a lot depends on how it was logged.  Some guys take more wood than others. 

We have one mill that has their loggers fell the tree and walk up to the first limb and buck it there, Quick and easy for the logger but it leaves a lot of wood in the forest.

Stonebroke

[SwampDonkey]

That's a hard one to calculate. You could have a big old hardwood with 4 major upper limbs, or 2 etc. Plus the upper bole, from where the lower logs were severed from. Some trees might have 1/2 volume left on the ground, some 2/5th and some take the top wood down to 2". We always did, there wasn't much wasted.

Why not pay the owner based on the processed volume? I would think that is the only accurate way. If the owner thinks that your steeling wood out the back way, what doe she think of a WAG on the volume that is still up there in the tree tops.  :