iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Skid Steer vs Tractor

Started by Fairchance, September 10, 2009, 10:43:02 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

mike_van

 
[/quote]

  Sounds like you don't have a skidsteer.     Steve
[/quote]                                                                                                                   On a list of "I gotta have" equipment, a skidsteer would be last, just not something I need.  The few I've used I found really hard to get in & out of, and that was before the 2 back operations.  The IH on the other hand, step on, step off.  Noisey, they gotta be hot cooped up in there in the summer too. How do you see to back up? They can't be easy to work on, a lotta stuff crammed into a small area.  So, all you skid steer buyers out there, the guy bidding against you won't be me!  :D 8)
I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Magicman

Quote from: pineywoods on September 11, 2009, 10:42:02 AM
Big old industrial backhoes can be had cheaper than a small farm tractor.   

Good point.  I could/should have mentioned that that old Oliver, shown above, cost me $3800.  One new rear tire, a transfer case seal, and brakes was an additional $500.  It has a 78 HP Waukesha diesel engine.  I don't even know what it's limits are.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ladylake

Quote from: mike_van on September 11, 2009, 01:00:49 PM
 

  Sounds like you don't have a skidsteer.     Steve
[/quote]                                                                                                                   On a list of "I gotta have" equipment, a skidsteer would be last, just not something I need.  The few I've used I found really hard to get in & out of, and that was before the 2 back operations.  The IH on the other hand, step on, step off.  Noisey, they gotta be hot cooped up in there in the summer too. How do you see to back up? They can't be easy to work on, a lotta stuff crammed into a small area.  So, all you skid steer buyers out there, the guy bidding against you won't be me!  :D 8)
[/quote]

  I have both, the tractor doesn't see much use.  You cant see to back up or much to the side either, look behind before you get in then just turn around.  They're not to hot with the door off and I wear ear muffs all the time, I have a 1070 Case that's a lot louder. I have a Case 75xt  skidsteer , with the cab up it's not bad to work on.    Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

sgschwend

Here is mine, all terrain FWD with lock, automatic, power sterring, Cummins 4BT.



Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

mike_van

I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

Magicman

Steve, that looks like one BAD machine..... ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

ladylake

Quote from: sgschwend on September 11, 2009, 05:28:10 PM
Here is mine, all terrain FWD with lock, automatic, power sterring, Cummins 4BT.





  Looks like a nice machine, how much can it lift?   Does anyone use one of those miltary surplus machines that looks kind of like a Terex? There's one around 20 miles from, should stop in and check it over.   Steve , give us some details on your sawmill, hp, log size, band, etc.  Looks nice to me.   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

sgschwend

I purchased the forklift in a military surplus auction out at Georgia.  Web site was equipment liquidators, there were 26 being sold at the same time (I would guess prices ran from $3K to $5K).  New they are about $40K.  It needed a ring gear and starter, not too much effort to get it going, as you can see I had planned on painting it but never seem to find the time.  It has a rated lift of 4000 pounds able to lift any log that would fit on my mill.

The mill is Mighty Mite (made in the Portland Oregon area).  It has a 3 cylinder Perkins engine, a 36" diameter log capacity (28" wide cut) and the mill is setup to cut logs up to 24' in length.  It uses 19" diameter machined wheels,  a 166" long blade that can be as wide as 1.5" (I normally use 1 3/8 saws, but have a few 1.5" for evaluation).  It is fully hydraulics with two log turners and also a adjustable height fence that acts much like a table saw fence.  The set works are also hydraulic with no computer, just a scale.

There is a short video of the mill cutting on my web page, it was showing a technique that reduces the number of cuts through the bark.
Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

ladylake

 Steve  Took a look at your video,  how do you know when the log is square?  I like to turn 180 after opening the 1st face which results in cutting through a little less bark than 90 and sure seems faster when cutting dimension lumber  I like those chain turners, sure wish I had 2 on my mill instaed of 1 and that might happen one of these days.  Your running a 3 cylinder  Perkins, how many hp?  My 3 cylinder Isusu is rated at 28 hp but seems like 50 compared to the 27 hp Kohler that came with the mill. You would really like a good working setworks, for sure on shorter logs as you don't have to bring the head back near you, just clear the end of the loig and saw . That's a good price on that loader, my skidsteer was $15000 ,   Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

sgschwend

The fence is square to the table, by setting it up but below the saw the fence/mill table makes a nice big right angle.  I can look down the log and see when the log is square.  Or if I am rotating the log into the fence the fence will set the right angle. 

I have done the 180 degree rotation too, mostly with big beams.  Which reduces the bark cutting in half.  Which is a substantial saw blade saving. 

As to Hp, don't know, user's handbook does not list it.  I believe it is a 33 Kw which converts to 44 hp.
Steve Gschwend

sjgschwend@gmail.com

Warren

Over the years, have managed to collect a 60 hp tractor with fel, 8k lb offroad forklift and skid steer.  Paid $5K or less for each piece of equipment by shopping hard and waiting for deals.  Have added to each machine over the years, time and money permitting...

Currently, the only sawmill work the tractor does is skid logs out of the woods.  The offroad forklift is only used to move logs and bundles that weigh more than 2,500 lbs.  Skid steer does everything else, 90-95% of work.

Knowing what I know now, for my operation, if I had to go with only one material handling unit for everything, it would be a tracked skid steer with the greatest lift capacity I could afford...  I would avoid the "HUGE" logs, and build bundles that were manageable with that unit.

-w-
LT40SHD42, Case 1845C,  Baker Edger ...  And still not near enough time in the day ...

mike_van

One last thought & I'll zip it -  :D  To move your tractor any reasonable distance, you can just drive it. Pull the sawmill if you're portable. 28 mph out of mine.  The skid steer though, you'll want a pretty good trailer, I can't imagine driving one 5 miles down the highway.  My job this spring was 30 + cord of locust,  just about a mile from home. I took the tractor & a 4 wheel running gear everyday - came home by noon with a good load on the wagon. 

I was the smartest 16 year old I ever knew.

solidwoods

Depends on what other jobs you need done.

How about a trailer with a knuckle boom on it.
Those can also move stacks of lumber, just use a spreader bar/beam and chains.
It also bridges the gap of "how can I pickup/transport that free set of logs".
A pin on scoop bucket can also be built to scoop sawdust etc.

Or a knuckle boom truck with trailer is nice, you may get more knuckle boom per $.

Tree svc's use truckle like a Ford 9000 dump with a behind cab knuckle boom.  That would be a good multi use log fetcher.  Easy to work on low tech and still plenty of parts available.

Skid steers can be a little techy to work on and it's built very compact which can make some jobs harder, parts/pro shop time ain't cheap either.  Tracks and no flat tires are big $.

You could also factor how many other job tools you'd like  ie. 3pt hitch implements,  bucket,  back hoe.

I use an old Ford backhoe called Cracker and an old knuckle boom truck called Big Yellow.
jim
Ret. US Army
Kasco II B Band mill
Woodworking since 83
I mill & kiln dry lumber, build custom furniture, artworks, flooring, etc.
If you mill, you'll be interested in some of my work in one way or another.
We ship from our showroom.
N. Central TN.

DGK

 



I haven't tried using the grapple to load logs directly on the mill but it does move the logs around the yard very easily. My logs are small so having them lined up on a deck and then using the hydraulic log loader works well.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

okmulch

I love my Cat 287c skid steer.It is a rubber tracked loader. It has an air ride seat. A pressurized cab, so it is quiet and dust proof. Air condition and heater. Of course I am driving it for many hours a day and so comfort was a must , and the more comfort the more the price. This 287c has better viewing then the older models. Just by turning my head side to side with the boom up just a little I can most of the tracks and arae around the loader. It also comes with a large rear view mirror so you do not have to turn around backwards to see behind.
This is just my opinon , because I know most people are not in the skidsteers all day like I am so some luxury might not be worth it.
Rotochopper b66 track, #2 Rotochopper b66 track, woodmizer lt40, CAT 277b, CAT 268b, CAT 287c, CAT 277c, CAT299d2, CAT299d3, CAT 299d3, Volvo 70e,volvo70f, volvo90f

spencerhenry

to those who say a tractor is more versatile, obviously you dont know much about skid steers. every attachment that is available for a tractor is available for a skid steer and a whole lot more. tractors using pto to run attachments have the issue of shear bolts, and changing out a pto attachment is far more effort than a skid steer attachment.  people keep saying there are higher cost of maintenance with tracked machines, i own a tracked machine and cant for the life of me figure out where those costs would be.
i used to own a gehl dl6h-42 a 42 foot reach forklift, i had a fork carriage that had 5 foot forks, that were 5'6" apart, excellent for moving lumber, fair for moving logs, with the bucket on it, a great sawdust/ snow removal tool. i owned it for my framing contracting business. a great machine, but even with 4 wheel steer, it takes a lot of space. i sold the forklift, and just before that, i bought a Mustang 2109 skidsteer with removable rubber track units. it weighs 13,200 with the tracks on it, it will pick up almost 6000 pounds, visibility is great, with 115 hp there arent many attachments i cant run. it is far more versatile than any tractor i have owned. the tracks offer excellent traction, the stability is also excellent. i only have a few attachments right now, but i use it more than any one machine i have ever had and just yesterday i asked myself why i didnt buy one sooner. i have forks, a 90" snow bucket, 7' snowblower, and a 10' snow plow. how many hobby farmer tractors can push a 10' snowplow? by the way i live at 8600' in the colorado mountains and get LOTS of snow, sometimes as much as 350" in a season.
the only thing i dont like about a skidsteer is the lack of ground clearance. if operated right, the damage to the ground is also minimal, you just can pivot the machine all the time, but the maneuverability of a skidsteer is second to none if you need it.

gunman63

I'd vote for a skid steer anytime, wouldnt  trade mine for a tractor or forklift, works great for about anything, needs hardly any room to turn around if need be, plows snow  faster than any pickup or tractor  in most  yards,  great visabilty  in front, just need to remember whats behind u, or turn around, ground is  froze 6 months of the year up here so no tearing it up, Should  have bought one years ago, not 5  years ago. and as far as up keep, not any more so than anyting else  take care of it , dont abuse it.

DanG

Yeah they have all sorts of attachments for skidsteer machines, but they are expensive.  I've never seen any attachments on the used market they way you find farm tractor implements.  Never have seen or heard of a hay baler or a disk harrow for one, either.  A whole bunch of us have farm land as well as a sawmill, and already have the tractor.  I'll take the combo of a tractor and a forklift over the skidsteer, any day.  If you shop carefully, you can get both for less money, too.
"I don't feel like an old man.  I feel like a young man who has something wrong with him."  Dick Cavett
"Beat not thy sword into a plowshare, rather beat the sword of thine enemy into a plowshare."

cilley

Hello everyone........what one needs, wants and can afford are always the things that determine what we end up with for a piece of equipment........in my case money was the one thing that determined what i bought..........i found a nice 62 ford 4000 with loader......it had only 1150 hrs on it and was well maintained........2 owners and the last one was a tractor mechanic........i had a set of forks made to fit the bucket.......i use this to load my log deck.......works great and can lift anything that i want put on the mill......i also can use it to haul my cord wood trailer..........and i will use it to plow the yard this winter..........for $4500 it works for me........alan

stonebroke

47 years old and only 1150 hours. Lets see that is 24.4 hours a year. About a half hour a week. Bet it sat in the shed a whole lot.

Stonebroke

beenthere

cilley
I'll bet the Ford is handy to have around.

I got rid of my skidsteer. Too slow, couldn't pull/operate a brush mower or plow, or skid a log, or give me a smooth ride. A few things it would do just fine. Lettin me get quickly/easily on and off wasn't one of the plus's.  :)
south central Wisconsin
It may be that my sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others

Handy Andy

  I saw a forklift today that would do a job around a mill.  Think the # was 586 Case.  Looked at the forks and how they are attached, and appeared to be a shame they didn't have a 3 point hitch attaching the forks to the machine so you could change the forks for a bucket.  That would be a versatile machine if built that way.  It appeared to actually be a tractor with the controls turned around and forks on the back, so the drive wheels carry the load.
My name's Jim, I like wood.

ErikC

  The worst thing I used on the ground for loading the mill was a cat 933 track loader, with backhoe. That tore up the site pretty good ::) Skid steers seem a lot quicker than the backhoe, but the ones I used were a little on the light side. So the backhoe wins for me. I would have liked the skidsteer pretty well if they were a bigger model though.





ps I think I could put the biggest log that skidsteer will carry in the forks and then pick up the whole thing and carry it off with the backhoe, for big logs you need a big machine.
Peterson 8" with 33' tracks, JCB 1550 4x4 loader backhoe, several stihl chainsaws

bandmiller2

Good stuff cheap,most of us cannot afford or justify the best and most efficient loader for the mill.Solid frame loaders like the old houghs or Michigans can be had reasonable.Yes I know their awkward and take an acre to turn.Take the bucket off and install forks and have a machine you won't overload.Every mill should have a log brow/deck to hold logs as its not good form to place logs on the mill with a machine.Had an old Michigan at my first mill even the largest logs were childs play and FWD, snow ment nothing.Don't be afrade of a big loader with a gas engine their even cheaper than diesel and are better for starts and stops.Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Bibbyman

Quote from: Fairchance on September 10, 2009, 10:43:02 PM
I am looking to buy a piece of equipment to load logs onto my bandmill. How much advatage does a skid steer have over a tractor? A skid steer was recommended due to the roll cage/safety aspect of the design. What do you guys think?

Back to the original question.  Another idea..

I went back to your old posts and noted you bought a Cook's MP-32 manual mill.  Instead of a tractor or skid steer,  maybe another option would be to upgrade to an hydraulic mill?
Wood-Mizer LT40HDE25 Super 25hp 3ph with Command Control and Accuset.
Sawing since '94

Thank You Sponsors!