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Standing dead trees

Started by Eppdso, August 12, 2018, 11:34:27 PM

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Eppdso

Good evening everyone!

New to the forum and thought i would get my first post out of the way. So i am looking at getting in to the firewood business to utilize equipment that i have for my business for the slow time in the winter. Also my buddy is getting ready to pull the trigger on a saw mill which would give me more income from hauling for him. My question is how good are standing dead trees to be able to sell firewood right away. I know i am starting into the game late in the season to be able to season the wood to be able to sell it. Was thinking this would be my best chance to get in the game this season. When for a drive tonight and found an area that had about 100 dead trees with no bark on them still standing. One issue is i'm not sure what species they are, They are surrounded by cottonwoods but do not have the diameter of a cottonwood  for the height that they are (roughly 25" by 70 to 100 tall) all the cottonwoods that are the same height have at least a 50" trunk. I look forward to your imput.

Been looking at getting a splitter and found one today that they are having a deal on. Buy the splitter get a stihl chainsaw  ;D

Thanks!

barbender

Welcome to the Forum! The dead standing trees may or may not be sound, and they may or may not be dry. Black Ash is one species I have found that dries quite nicely when dead standing. Red oak usually isn't. You won't know until you cut them down. Also, different regions have different wood burning "cultures", for instance, in my area (northern MN) most folks seem to consider hardwood cut and split in the spring dry and ready for fall burning. Most dead standing wood would suit them fine. However, other areas realize that you need a couple years drying for most hardwoods and if you tried to sell them something you just split that day, they might not like it.
Too many irons in the fire

Eppdso

Thank you Barbender nice to be here. We do have ash here but not a lot of it if your out in the country it mostly in the city. As for the seasoned wood yeah they are a bit picky here. We have 3 different climates here, Prairie foothills and mountains. it can be 70 on the prairies and snowing in the mountains lol and its only a 35 mile difference. I believe that if someone is paying for something they should get what is the best product no matter what it is. Guess i will have to try and cut one of them down and go from there, pretty sure the farmer would be open to it there were quite a few that have fallen down and his cows spend most of their time in this area due to grazing and water availability.

thecfarm

Eppdso,welcome to the forum.
In this area dead trees would be a no-no for most people to buy wood.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

curved-wood

I hate cutting down dead trees. They are very dangerous.  The upper branches  could fly anywhere , the hinge might hot be good because of the root( so I check the color of the sawdust as I am sawing ). It is just difficult to predict what will the tree will do.

brianJ

Some of those dead trees are already down?    Where did they break?   From the top or at the root ball?   

hedgerow

Quote from: Eppdso on August 12, 2018, 11:34:27 PM
Good evening everyone!

New to the forum and thought i would get my first post out of the way. So i am looking at getting in to the firewood business to utilize equipment that i have for my business for the slow time in the winter. Also my buddy is getting ready to pull the trigger on a saw mill which would give me more income from hauling for him. My question is how good are standing dead trees to be able to sell firewood right away. I know i am starting into the game late in the season to be able to season the wood to be able to sell it. Was thinking this would be my best chance to get in the game this season. When for a drive tonight and found an area that had about 100 dead trees with no bark on them still standing. One issue is i'm not sure what species they are, They are surrounded by cottonwoods but do not have the diameter of a cottonwood  for the height that they are (roughly 25" by 70 to 100 tall) all the cottonwoods that are the same height have at least a 50" trunk. I look forward to your imput.

Been looking at getting a splitter and found one today that they are having a deal on. Buy the splitter get a stihl chainsaw  ;D

Thanks!
Welcome to the forum. Most the dead standing trees in my area wouldn't be seasoned enough if you cut and split them today for fall winter burning for a customer. In the old days when I sold wood if winter got long and I had sold most of my good seasoned wood I would go to the timber and cut a dead standing ash or elm and split it and mix it with my personal wood I was burning and it worked ok. Never sold any to a customer that I had just cut and split. 

mike_belben

Red oak will never dry until its cut and split.  It can stay on that stump until its mulch and still be sopping wet when you split it.  I have blow down logs thatve been piled for 2 years.. The splitter will squeeze drips out of them.  

Best you can do is split them small immediately and stack loosely with the butts facing sunrise and sunset.   The water leaves fastest out the cut ends.  

Most hardwood logs left laying in a pile wont dry at all unless you buck it then spread the pieces a bit for air and sun.

Dont tarp and dont stack more than two rows thick.. One is better for fast dry. Junk tin or plywood ontop the stacks is even better. 
Praise The Lord

Eppdso

Brian J they are snapped at all different areas of the trees, I'm pretty sure its mostly from the good winds that we get around here. Looking at google maps from what i can tell they have been dead about 4 years or so. Gotta love google for something right lol

reride82

Eppdso,

What species are they? Hardwood or softwood? What climate are they in? We have a lot of mountain pine beetle killed trees that I use for firewood. My area is all over 6000' and would be considered alpine. I've been burning dead lodgepole for years, as it is seasoned on the stump for the most part. They are finally starting to fall over on their own accord after being dead for 15 years as the they are rotting off at the base. Which is a huge pain since most of these are 80' tall and thick as hair on a dog! Some of my trails get blocked pretty severely when we get a wind storm and they're piled 8-10' high in places. Most hardwoods won't cure out like this alpine lodgepole does, as the hardwoods would already be rotten and punky by now, but the lodgepole I cut is still solid with at least one heart check to the center of the tree and 12-18% moisture content. So, I'd say cut one down and see whats inside. Post pictures of your findings ;)

Levi
'Do it once, do it right'

'First we shape our buildings, then our buildings shape us'
Living life on the Continental Divide in Montana

Eppdso

Reride.

The trees are located on river bottom. I'm not sure what species they are, as with most ares of river bottom in Colorado there are a lot of cottonwood that grow extremely large where as the trees in question have nowhere near the size of the cottonwoods for only being about 10 feet shorter. I have attached a picture to show the area before the trees died off (2012). As you can see there is a large cottonwood tree furthest to the back on the left and with no surprise there are Russian olive and then there is all the other ones. if you notice the branch growth is nothing like cottonwood. now that they are all dead and have no bark or any other identifying marks i am at a loss.

 

TKehl

Most of our firewood has gone from standing dead or dead and down to the fireplace somewhere between same day and a month. 

If it's cottonwood, the BTU are much lower.  But maybe in CO that's the best available?  Guess you've got to cut one down and figure out what it is.  ;)
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

trapper

Dead elm by me when the bark is gone the top is dry but the closer to the base of the tree the wetter it gets.  I normally split the bottom pieces  and save them for another year. 
stihl ms241cm ms261cm  echo 310 400 suzuki  log arch made by stepson several logrite tools woodmizer LT30

Solar_HoneyBee0

Eppdso,

Hey! Welcome!

So, everyone commenting here had great thoughts, but I figured I would give my $.02 cents even if it is just repeating some of the earlier comments. I cut firewood on the side for a business and have always loved to use dead standing timber. It's definitely a hit or miss thing though. I have found that if you get them too early they are still relatively green and you need to split and season them. On the other hand if you get them too late you run into one of two problems. The first being that they may be too old and just have no real substance left to them. Or the second problem is that they become water logged and become garbage. So, like a couple people mentioned, cut a couple down and see how they look and go from there. BUT also be very careful. Cutting trees down is honestly dangerous enough, but when you factor in dead trees you have to be on your toes. It might sound silly, but I always wear a hard hat when cutting dead trees (should really wear it all the time) due to their tendency to break up top.

Honestly, it's just one of those things you have to go for and do. See what happens, you know? I recently cut down a Red oak that had been dead for 3 years. This beast had barely any bark left on it and had to come down. When we split it the other day the core was still incredibly wet. Like, my leather gloves were soaked from handling the wood. So, you never know what you're gonna get.

The best of luck to you. Keep us posted!

John Mc

Quote from: Solar_HoneyBee0 on August 15, 2018, 11:33:08 PMIt might sound silly, but I always wear a hard hat when cutting dead trees (should really wear it all the time) due to their tendency to break up top.


Having seen what a head injury can do to a person, I always wear a hardhat when felling - dead trees or live. I plan to be around to see my kids grow up and not be a vegetable during the process. Going without is just not worth the risk.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Al_Smith

EAB killed ash will burn well right off the stump .As has been said the oaks won't until they are split and seasoned .Cotton wood weighs a ton on the fall but after about two months is like balsa .Just takes a lot of it by volume but like all wood produces heat .Dead hickory needs some time also to season .

Now where this idea came from you have to cut live trees for firewood I'll never know .Must be a regional thing .There might be some areas of a dead tree that aren't good firewood .Cut them out and use it for camp fires and such .

John Mc

Quote from: Al_Smith on August 17, 2018, 09:47:41 AMNow where this idea came from you have to cut live trees for firewood I'll never know .Must be a regional thing .There might be some areas of a dead tree that aren't good firewood .Cut them out and use it for camp fires and such .


I'm not sure anyone said you have to cut live trees for firewood. I was puzzled by thecfarm's statement that dead trees would be a no-no for buyers. Around here it's a matter of is it seasoned (if they are buying for this heating season), and is it sound (no one wants to mess with rotten would if they are paying for it).

I cut live trees for firewood to help accomplish my management goals (thinning overstocked areas, culling poorly formed trees, adjusting the species balance in an area, releasing mast trees for wildlife, etc.) I also cut some dead trees, but like to leave at least a few good sized snags per acre for wildlife habitat.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

mike_belben

When a tree is too rotten for firewood its perfect to innoculate the compost pile.  My punky stuff goes in the mulch mound and gives back cucumbers.  
Praise The Lord

thecfarm

I find that most people say,You Can't burn that, when I tell them I burn dead trees,wood. I have a OWB so I can burn it and I do burn dead wood. Than I tell them it's white pine.  ;D They really think I have no idea on how to burn wood.  :D They would be shocked if they saw my wood pile. My FIL is.
That's why the no-no comment.
But saying that most people can't tell a softwood stick of wood from a hardwood stick. Cut the limbs off and most have no idea. So I suppose they would not know it was dead either,unless they got told that.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

mike_belben

Run it hot and all issues are covered. Ive burned everything from wet pine to pure sawdust to pure oil and every shade of mix.  Still here to tell about it and never had a creosote issue in my life. 900f stack is a clean one no matter how it gets there. 
Praise The Lord

thecfarm

Burn dead white pine is a wood stove and all you get is a hot fire. :o
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Eppdso

i wasn't insinuation that dead wood shouldn't be burned i was just wondering if it gets to a point that it is a waste of time as it is to old and doesn't have the BTU anymore.

Eppdso

also after i received so many responses i decide to take a drive out there again and i have determined that all the dead ones are in fact cottonwood, But even the Russian olives are dead so something must have happened in the area. 

Al_Smith

Quote from: mike_belben on August 17, 2018, 10:44:52 AM
.  My punky stuff goes in the mulch mound and gives back cucumbers.  
It does good growing mushrooms too for that matter .I would hesitate eating them though ,could be toadstools . :o

John Mc

Quote from: Eppdso on August 18, 2018, 12:21:06 AM
i wasn't insinuation that dead wood shouldn't be burned i was just wondering if it gets to a point that it is a waste of time as it is to old and doesn't have the BTU anymore.
Yes, it eventually does. The weight of the log is the first clue. The lighter the log, the less BTUs remain. If the log is wet, that will throw off this measure, but I don't even bother to pick up wet, rotten logs, unless they are sitting across one of my trails.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

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