iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Seeking advice on a wood boiler

Started by burtle, November 17, 2018, 03:40:05 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

burtle



Right now I live in town with about 6-7K people (Although I don't think smoke will ever be an issue. There's no ban on them in town)

I have a 1200 square foot house with a 400 square foot garage. I'd like to heat the house and garage. In a few years I plan to upgrade to a new place. The new house/garage will be a total of about 4,000 square feet. I want to buy once and cry once.

There's a local heat master dealer within 30 minutes of me. I've heard nothing but great things about heat master so far. There's a crown royal wood boiler dealer about 30 minutes away too. But I've been hearing bad things about crown royal...

I'm not 100% sure which model to go with. Can any of you tell me any pro's and con's to the heat master?

More than likely it would be a gasification unit.

I have logs dropped off and I cut them up/split them etc....
But at the same time I don't want to have to feed the boiler every 2-3 hours. If I can get a boiler that would go 10-12 hours at a time that would be great. I usually keep my heat on 68-69. It would be ran October 15th-March 28th Give or take a week or so on start/ending.
Never Give Up

E Yoder

Considering the size of the next house you'd probably want the GS200 or G200. Will easily give 12+ hour burn times. 18 more likely.
Smoke shouldn't be an issue. We've put G and GS units right in tight subdivisions with no issues with smoke. They burn very very clean.
We've been a dealer for Heatmaster since about 2004. Great people to work with.
HeatMaster dealer in VA.
G7000

doctorb

As I have a Central Boiler model, i can't help you deciding which manufacturer to choose.  But I can tell you that my house is over 4000 sf, and I have no trouble heating it with an OWB, even in the coldest of times.  Now, you're gonna need a lot of seasoned fuel, but I commonly have 12 hour or longer burns with my CB.  Newer models should even be more efficient.

My general routine is to visit the OWB 3X/day.  Morning before work, late afternoon, and before bed.  If I'm real busy, or if it's not terribly cold, I could cut that down to twice a day.  Just don't buy a smaller model because you want to save a few $'s.  Make sure the model you choose has enough BTU output to handle your situation.
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

thecfarm

I myself would go with the Heatmaster. You posted you have heard nothing but great things about them. So that would do it right there for me.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

barbender

I'm not familiar with those makes. I have a Heatmor that I've been very happy with. I can't even remember how many seasons I have on it, 9 or 10? Anyways, mine is not a gasification unit, it is simple and trouble free. I load it morning and night, heating just our 2700 sf home. Actually, with current temps (10-20°F) I only need to load it once a day.
Too many irons in the fire

280 rem

Quote from: doctorb on November 17, 2018, 02:36:41 PM
As I have a Central Boiler model, i can't help you deciding which manufacturer to choose.  But I can tell you that my house is over 4000 sf, and I have no trouble heating it with an OWB, even in the coldest of times.  Now, you're gonna need a lot of seasoned fuel, but I commonly have 12 hour or longer burns with my CB.  Newer models should even be more efficient.

My general routine is to visit the OWB 3X/day.  Morning before work, late afternoon, and before bed.  If I'm real busy, or if it's not terribly cold, I could cut that down to twice a day.  Just don't buy a smaller model because you want to save a few $'s.  Make sure the model you choose has enough BTU output to handle your situation.
What size or model of central boiler do you have? I'm looking into these and have a 4500 sq ft plus a garage I might try to heat later. Looking mostly at central boiler and heatmor. The central boiler dealer was recommending the 7260 model although the size seems a little intimidating to me.
We saw walnut lumber for the same reason Willie Sutton said he robbed banks, "because that's where the money is"

Select 4221E, baker edger, cat 908 loader, Jd 548E, timberjack 230d, hood 7000 loader.

hedgerow

Sounds like your going to be at this location for a very long time I would vote for a Garn and be in side to load the wood as you get older you may not like the outside as much. 

burtle

Thanks for the replies guys.

I'm waiting for my city office to call me with the amount of gas I used/paid during Oct-April for the last few years. I'm going to take it from there. If I can save 500-800.00 or more a year that would be great.


I've been getting more info on heatmaster the last several days and I'm set on the g200 at this time.

Never Give Up

hedgerow

If I could only save 500-800 a year I wouldn't spend the money to install a OWB you are going to spend a lot of money on this even if you do all the work your self. Even if your getting free wood from a tree service it cost a lot of money in time and equipment. I have land I need to clean up any way so I have to deal with the trees but it still takes a lot of time and money to make it to firewood. Burning wood is a life style so make sure the family is on board before the money is spent.  

ButchC

Quote from: hedgerow on November 19, 2018, 01:36:34 PM
Burning wood is a life style so make sure the family is on board before the money is spent.  
Exactly, In my experience those whose primary motivation is saving money dont last very long burning wood at any level but especially when it involves an OWB and full time commitment that goes along with one of them.  I have talked more people out of owning one, than into one,, you can just tell by talking to them the ones that would be just throwing lots of money down a hole.
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

Hilltop366

I would wait for the next house, for the little you would save on fuel you won't recover the hookup cost and then have to do it again in the new house. 

To me thermal storage is where its at right now, fire now at best efficiency and clean burn, store and use heat as needed over several days...repeat as needed. Maybe add some solar hot water collectors to reduce the wood required in the shoulder seasons and summer for a bit of heat and domestic hot water.

hedgerow

Quote from: Hilltop366 on November 20, 2018, 08:38:35 AM
I would wait for the next house, for the little you would save on fuel you won't recover the hookup cost and then have to do it again in the new house.

To me thermal storage is where its at right now, fire now at best efficiency and clean burn, store and use heat as needed over several days...repeat as needed. Maybe add some solar hot water collectors to reduce the wood required in the shoulder seasons and summer for a bit of heat and domestic hot water.
This is why I went with a Garn and added another 3000 gallon of storage. I burn around 15 cord a year and that is all hardwood hedge and locust When we are clearing pasture the junk trees as I call them elm cotton wood and such all go into the brush pile. I have lost all my helpers that used to burn stoves or fire places and would take the elm and such to heat with. I am down to two guys that help me clean up the pastures and make firewood and they are hunters and help me to get hunting rights on our land it works great for all of us. One is from out of the area so when he comes to help he stays with us a week at a time and when its deer season he stays a week or until he gets his limit. 

panolo

Like the heatmaster allot! I'm running a CB 550 edge model. This is my 3rd year with it. I don't think it is the best boiler out there but it fits my needs and I have a great dealer within 20 minutes. I liked other models but I was worried about service after the sale. I keep my house at 72 with forced air and it is around 5k square feet.

Pros: 
Efficiency. Uses less wood than all my friends with OWBs.
Simple operation. Doesn't get much easier.
Firestar controller. Awesome to check in on it from anywhere and monitor your burns.
Easy clean outs. 10 minutes every week and a few hours when the season is over.
Literally no smoke. Amazing how little you get out of it. 

Cons:
Have to use seasoned wood for max efficiency.
Shorter burn times. Mostly filling twice a day. There is no two day burns. 12-15 hours is about the max. 
I have replaced a couple small parts. Couple clips, deflector, door gasket. 

burtle

Thanks for all the replies guys! I appreciate it! It always helps learning from others who have been using wood boilers/burners for some time.

I'm going to do some serious thinking before I decide to pull the trigger or not.
Never Give Up

Wood Shed

One thing that has not been mentioned yet is firewood storage.  You need to factor that in as burning dry wood is essential with the new gasification technology.  Having a wood shed has other values too like helping maintain the appearance of your property.  Everyone is saying smoke is not an issue, it only takes one irritated neighbor to turn that around.  Owning an OWB is a 10-15 year commitment and yes like my neighbor says "You have to put wood in it".  



 
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." -Greek Proverb

doctorb

280 rem -

Sorry, I missed your question.....

I have a CB e-2300.  Now in its 9th season.  This model is no longer available.  

The 7260 that the dealer recommended to you is not a gasifier model.  I prefer that more efficient technology and I would be looking at the larger models of the new CB Edge series, if I decided to replace it. I would try and investigate the different BTU outputs of the different models.  I am not totally informed of the new Edge series specs, but I am confident that the larger one of that line can handle your house / garage heating needs.

Not to question your dealer, but I would also investigate if your locale (state, county, municipality) is in the process of enacting legislation requiring future OWB's to be gasified models.  If that's true, then your dealer may be trying to move a unit that in a few months or a year, he won't be able to sell.  You could get a good deal from him on a "discontinued" model, but you would be getting older technology.

If you are worried about any OWB heating your house, I would suggest using 1 1/4" diameter thermopex pipe.  The standard 1" diameter is ok for the majority of applications, but if your OWB is any distance from your house, you want to have easy, efficient transfer of heat.  The greater volume flow afforded by the larger pipe helps heat a larger house.

Just saw this on the CB website regarding the 7260:

"In the U.S., this appliance is for non-residential applications only."

I'd ask your dealer about that.  The 7260 is a beast!
My father once said, "This is my son who wanted to grow up and become a doctor.  So far, he's only become a doctor."

E Yoder

Yes, non-gasification units (like the 7260) are legal to sell but can be used only for commercial installations. That's the federal EPA rules.
HeatMaster dealer in VA.
G7000

mike_belben

Quote from: Hilltop366 on November 20, 2018, 08:38:35 AM
To me thermal storage is where its at right now, fire now at best efficiency and clean burn, store and use heat as needed over several days...repeat as needed. Maybe add some solar hot water collectors to reduce the wood required in the shoulder seasons and summer for a bit of heat and domestic hot water.
That is my plan when i get the shop and house built.  I have 2 large insulated commercial water storage tanks with several heat exchangers inside each, probably 6 or 700 gallons.  Plus a collection of circulator pumps, temp controllers, roof mounted solar trough concentrators and various stainless heat exchangers ive squirrelled together over the years.  
I want to build a smallish firebox that runs blazing hot and clean or not at all.  Run it for a day, when the tanks are near boiling, shut it down for 2 or 3.  Have the freedom to be gone for a night or two and not spend the rest of the year trying to get 20 cord put up.  The boiler will be inside a shop so its waste heat is my work heat. In summer cut it down to one tank and let solar handle it.  I will run the wood/sun heated water into the inlet side of a small electric hot water heater in the house so that even if its cloudy all week we still have hot water without any fiddling.
Praise The Lord

LittleJohn

Quote from: 280 rem on November 17, 2018, 07:27:04 PM
Quote from: doctorb on November 17, 2018, 02:36:41 PM
As I have a Central Boiler model, i can't help you deciding which manufacturer to choose.  But I can tell you that my house is over 4000 sf, and I have no trouble heating it with an OWB, even in the coldest of times.  Now, you're gonna need a lot of seasoned fuel, but I commonly have 12 hour or longer burns with my CB.  Newer models should even be more efficient.

My general routine is to visit the OWB 3X/day.  Morning before work, late afternoon, and before bed.  If I'm real busy, or if it's not terribly cold, I could cut that down to twice a day.  Just don't buy a smaller model because you want to save a few $'s.  Make sure the model you choose has enough BTU output to handle your situation.
What size or model of central boiler do you have? I'm looking into these and have a 4500 sq ft plus a garage I might try to heat later. Looking mostly at central boiler and heatmor. The central boiler dealer was recommending the 7260 model although the size seems a little intimidating to me.
...my dad has a Central Boiler e-Classic 2300??  He radiantly heats 3000sf house, a 4000sf detached garage and a sidearm heater - loads 2x/day, burns about 15-20 cords a year, depending on quality of firewood and the overall temperature here in Northern Minnesota.

711ac

I'm wondering why no one considers an indoor boiler? There are plusses along with the negatives, but feeding & checking the boiler in your underwear at bed time, and the "waste" heat going into your living space.... .
If one had the opportunity to design a space in their home (or garage) where the boiler was near an outside door along with a small space for a few days worth of wood inside along with having a pressure system for longevity over an "atmosphere" system that as far as I know all owb's are, the choice is worth considering at least. 

thecfarm

I had an indoor boiler. Had it for more than 15 years. I would not want to go back to one. The reason I got a OWB so I can burn anything for wood in mine and have a controlled burn. The indoor I had worked like a wood stove. I burn dead cedar in mine OWB and never had a boil over. The kind that been leaning against another tree and had no limbs on it. There is no natural draft,so when I open the door,smoke pours out. There are 2 fans that drive oxygen into the firebox. I burn just about all dead wood.
No big deal to go out and check the fire. I had to haul wood into a basement for years to fill that inside boiler. Now I just dump wood with my loader by the OWB. So I have had both and I know which one I like the best. The agument about going out to feed don't work for me. You have to go outside to get wood to bring inside,same thing to me. I use to spend a couple hours a week bringing wood by the wood barrow full. Even if the wood is right by the furnace,still have to carry it after a while. Some member had the wood on a rail system. Just keep pushing and the wood was by the furnace. A good idea.
Not much waste heat with neither of the boilers that I had.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Wood Shed

thecfarm,  Your history is so much like mine it scares me.  I too had a wood and oil combo boiler inside for 15 years before the OWB.  I knew I liked the way you think when I heard you burn almost exclusively dead wood.  Never even thought of cutting a live tree for firewood.  Would not go back to burning wood inside the house or my out buildings although I have been considering different heat options for my shop.  Put in a 30,000 btu propane heater in one outside work space but am not comfortable with it. 
A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they know they shall never sit in." -Greek Proverb

LittleJohn

I would agree with "thecfarm"

...before he built his current house and OWB, we had a indoor wood fired furnace.  A lot of mess and wood in the house, yeah putting your coat on to go fire is a pain, but loading and forgetting is also kind of nice.

Tarm

I have an indoor Tarm wood gasifier boiler with a storage tank. I heat my home and hot water from November to April with 4 full cords of wood. I can go downstairs in my underwear and within 10 minutes load, fire and walk away from my wood boiler. It takes me three half days of work to load the four cords of firewood into my basement each fall. It takes me 12 half days to cut, split, load, haul and stack the four cords of firewood by my house each fall. What I cut one fall I burn over the next winter. I gather my firewood from forestry operations that I need to do to improve my woodlands. Mostly thinning out small hardwood trees. I do not cut dead or down wood. I leave that stuff the for the bugs. My neighbor has an OWB. My boiler smokes for five minutes when I start it up, his boiler smokes all day long. I fill his OWB when he is gone. He burns more wood in a day than I burn in a week. He spends all winter cutting wood for that OWB. I spend 6 fall weekends. I swear he goes through 20 full cords of wood each year. Now it is a free county and you can do what you want but I would rather burn four cords inside than twenty cords outside.

superwd6

Was just at a house with a boiler inside and it stunk bad of wood smoke. Finishing 10th heating season with my central boiler and would possibly have small wood stove in a new home but never a wood furnace or boiler. Anybody installing an outdoor wood boiler that can't recover the initial cost within 5-6 years is insane 🧐.  Even free wood has added costs so if your going to heat multiple buildings ,pools and such do it . IF I replace my Eclassic 2300 it'll be heatmaster G200 as I don't like cutting wood that much and I like me neighbors 😂

Thank You Sponsors!