Just finished some unique doors

[Brad_bb]

I needed a set of double doors for my new furnace room in a timberframe.  Last winter I was inside the old round corn crib on my farm and took a closer look at the louvered openings to the sides of the crib.  Here's the crib in the backround:


 

And here's one of the access openings with the removable louvers/slats.  Well upon closer inspection...wiping the thick dust off, I realized that they were pieces of 1x7 T&G heart pine flooring.  I cleaned them up with a nylon wheel brush.   I realized that I could use them to create a pair of louvered doors for my furnace room.  I wanted to mimic the louvered openings in the crib.


 

As I've been buying barnwood over the last few years, I've kept my eye out for more heart pine.  Well I found three 1x12x13' pieces that are some kind of pine.  May or may not be heart pine.  I also found half a dozen pine 2x6's that were dark/quite oxidized.  I used those to make the outside frames of the doors.They are not heart pine but do have circle saw marks and a nice oxidized dark brown color.  I jointed the frames with dovetail joints.  I also used some small diagonal braces on the back side to make sure the frame doesn't move.  In order to install them, the top two slats had to be installed.I don't need to drop the rest of the slats in until the doors are actually hung.  Right now just set in the opening.  I'll have to add a final pic whey they are hung and finished.


 

 

[Magicman]

It looks heart Piney but there is a possibility that it could be Cypress.  It would take a closer look to be sure.

[Brad_bb]

I've never seen cypress, but the slats have a lot of pitch in them.  Look like a pine to me.  Heavier than any other pine I've dealt with.  Reddish color to them(the pitch).  I'm talking about solidified pitch, not runny pitch like in a fresh cut spruce, pine, or doug fir.

[Magicman]

Your latest description says Pine, and probably Longleaf.

[Don P]

Nice work Brad. I've always admired the ag buildings out your way... any chance you can post some pics of the roof framing on that corn crib?

[samandothers]

Very nice work. How did you hinge them, they look as if they could be heavy?

[Stephen1]

Very nice!

[Southside]

I don't know exactly how to describe it but heart pine - old long leaf - has a unique smell to it as well - if I tell you it smelled like my grand mothers house that probably does not explain it very well, but if you cut or mill a piece you will detect the smell immediately.  

[Brad_bb]

I didn't cut any of the slats, so I can't tell you the smell.  The filler strips between the slats smelled really good through, somewhere between Pinesol and Christmas.   They also had much more pitch than any typical white pine etc, and were heavier, though not as heavy as the slats.

The doors are just set in the opening right now.  We're trying to find proper hinges.  either something that looks blacksmith made or maybe a bronze butt hinge that is at least 4" or bigger.  They door actually aren't that heavy. The 2x6 frame pieces are a much lighter weight pine, but they are dark from 100+ years in a barn.  I carried each one of those up the stairs and they weren't bad to carry.  They'll be a bit heavier when all the slats and filler strips are in.

MM, my understanding is that longleaf pine IS heart pine = same thing.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Don, it is something how that roof is framed.  I wonder if it's what they call balloon framing.  I don't really know what balloon framing is.  I've wondered how they heck they figured out how to build that roof.  I'm guessing that the pieces were cut elsewhere in a shop and assembled on site?  I've seen many cribs like this in IL.  I'm assuming it was probably one or two companies making them, but who knows?  I've thought about how it could be moved and re-purposed because eventually I'm going to move and the land will become concrete warehouses or light industrial.

[WDH]

MM, my understanding is that longleaf pine IS heart pine = same thing.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

The heartwood of the 4 major Southern pines is indistinguishable.  Heartwood is heartwood no matter which of the 4 species you are dealing with.  However, most "heart pine" was sawn many years ago from older growth, slow growing trees.  This makes it denser and heavier than heartwood sawn from more recently felled, faster growing, trees.

[Magicman]

MM, my understanding is that longleaf pine IS heart pine = same thing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Not correct. Longleaf is a Pine species; one of the 4 SYP species that WDH described above.  Loblolly, Slash, Shortleaf, and Longleaf.

I was glad to read his description above about "old growth" SYP heartwood because I had never given it much thought.


 
When I saw sticky/sappy SYP I am fairly well assured that it is Longleaf, but this ain't "old growth".  Sticky but still pretty stuff. 

[DR Buck]

Yea, and re-sawing heart pine can be challenging.        Several years ago I had a customer bring me quite a few 12x12 heart pine timbers recovered from an old dam removed from the Rappahannock River by the Corps of Engineers.  They had been in/underwater for over 140 years.   The sap was thick and as sticky as it ever was.   The 1x boards I milled seemed to have a lot of stress/tension that showed it's ugly head as they were dried.    Real pretty wood but not fun to cut and dry.

[btulloh]

You're right about the challenging part, DR_Buck.  It can challenge every sawing and machining operation and leave lots of hardened pitch as well.

Here are some pics of long leaf pine cut in Georgia in 1895.  It's a different animal than anything on the stump today.



 
Because of perspective, the ruler makes the growth rings look wider than they are. The tape is about 3 inches below the level of the end grain.  The top block is about 3" x 4".



 

 

 

[Magicman]

 

 
Here is a sinker Pine log that I sawed and it was a sappy mess.


 
Showing the tight grains on the QS face.  I was happy that it was only one log.  :-\

[Don P]

I wonder if it's what they call balloon framing.  I don't really know what balloon framing is.

Balloon framing really refers to wall construction. Originally when stick framing started and especially out of the Chicago area 2 story houses were built with 2 story tall studs. At the bottom was a heavy timber sill, floor joists sat on top of that and alongside each joist and nailed to it a tall stud was stood up. Under the second floor joists a 1x4 ribbon was let into the studs. The 2nd floor joists rested on the ribbon and were nailed alongside the studs. The stups continued up to either a top plate or often another ribbon, either of which supported the ceiling joists... which often extended out beyond the walls to form the soffit. A wide 1x raising plate was nailed flatways on top of the overhanging ceiling joists and the rafters, with a simple level cut were nailed to the raising plate. There are many variations as TF morphed into light timberframe and then stick frame. Houses here about post civil war to WWII show the shift in many ways. often 4x6 corner posts with a 2x4 nailed onto the 6" face, 4x4's at window and door openings and studs spaced between. Birdsmouthed rafters appearing, rim joists, horrific notching and ledgers for lower joists. They were working out a new way of building.
The balloon framing was those full height studs. If you followed the fire path in that discussion a fire anywhere inside the floor or wall cavities had unimpeded access to the entire frame, undetected by the occupants. The frame would be very quickly fully engulfed and would collapse very often before those inside knew there was even a fire. I worked on one old modified balloon framed house, even found the mortgage payment notes in a wall in the dining room. A fire started in the kitchen wall at some point in its life, ran upstairs, charring in the attic, and they got it out, how I cannot imagine.
We still build balloon framed walls especially in tall cathedral ceilinged gable ends "a stud must run continuous from points of lateral support (from floor to ceiling unbroken) However we must now fireblock no more than every 10' and at each change of plane.
In this codebook drawing look at the intersection of the 2nd floor, platform framing is shown on the left, balloon framing on the right;




I'm guessing your corn crib roof framing is kind of like a yurt roof. A compression ring of beams that form a box the cupola sits on. From that rectangular ring the rafters run down to the heavy masonry walls, as the rafters run around the curved ends they splay and each is a different length, a top notch framer. I've never been inside one, is that anywhere close?


On the heart pine. To me "heart pine" is that antique pine heartwood that is full of extractives, red/brown, not bright, not neccessarily fatwood. That is the smell Southside is talking about. When the ring count gets very fine, tight and high the proportion of strong dense latewood is not necessarily that high.

[Brad_bb]

DonP, I'll try to get some pics when the Blizzard passes!

My slats are definitely in the SYP family, and they are old (old growth too), besides being heavy.

[fishfighter]

I have well over 600sf of old growth quarter sawed SYP T&G flooring. The grain is real tight. Very heavy stuff.

[Brad_bb]

 

 

 

Furnace doors - YouTube

[samandothers]

Those turned out great!