Workflow on manual mill working solo

[btulloh]

This doesn't apply to you big-timers and medium-timers with hydraulics and helpers, but I'm looking for ways to speed things up with my HM126 and no off-bearer.  I've thought about it a lot, but more heads are better than one and I'm thinking maybe a discussion on this would be useful.

I've thought about adding a log deck, but right now I'm stacking lumber on the same side I load from.  I load the log with pallet forks on the 3pt then leave the tractor on that side.  Slabs go off to left on blocking to be picked up later.  Sawdust goes everywhere on the left side and then shovelled away eventually.  I sit a sticker pallet on the forks and stack and sticker lumber as it comes off the mill - if I have an empty sticker pallet.  If not I just stack it on the forks and deal with it later.  Of course I have to shift the lumber out to load another log.  It makes for a lot of moving stuff around. 

If I had a log deck on the right side, it would interfere with lumber removal and stacking.  I can't figure out how to have it both ways.  If I take lumber off to the left side, it's over with the slabs and gets more sawdust to boot. I've got a routine down that seems ok, but it's not very efficient.  A helper would be great, but not practical for me.

Who's got this figured out?

[Kbeitz]

I'm going to put in a log deck. I dont have it done yet.
I bought two 3.5ft wide 4 wheel trailers that will fit in between my mill and the to be built deck.
I will have long arms that fold up from the deck when I park the trailer beside the mill.
When the lumber is cut and loaded the trailer will be pull foward and another log will be rolled from the deck.



 



 

[ely]

I have a log deck on the right, slab pile on the left with sawdust. I put finished product on a trailer or in a pile to be lifted with a skid steer later. All flitches And one edged boards get saved to the right on the edge of the log deck when I am working alone. I finish them before starting a new log...if I have help I drop them to the left side and finish after 3 or four logs.

[kelLOGg]

I, too, have a one person manual operation. I think I have done pretty well on the log end of the operation: 1) trailer and log arches to get logs to the mill, 2) a rollway consisting of 5 utility poles onto which I roll the logs from the trailer or arches and 3) pull out steel ramps that connect the rollway to the mill. All that make getting logs on the mill fairly easy but slow. I have posted all this several times before.

Handling lumber is a different matter. For small lumber, I slide the lumber along the length of the cant onto a trailer - fairly easy if it doesn't weigh too much. When the pile on the trailer gets too high, especially when the lumber is heavy, this become very hard work for me. A job late last year required getting 2 x 10 x 18 SYP on the trailer about 4 feet tall. It was a killer.

So I made something which I hesitate to post because it hasn't been put to the test yet - but it seems relevant to the opening post. The idea is that the plywood push surface mounted to saw cage pushes the just-cut board over the roller which I then raise via a winch so the lumber can slide onto the trailer. When it falls onto the trailer the other end rises but the plywood push surface is tall enough to keep pushing. That's in theory - heavy lumber will be the test. I may wish I had held off on posting this until then but ... what are friends for. When the results of the rest are in, I will post again.
Bob



 

[Brucer]

... Slabs go off to left on blocking to be picked up later...
... Sawdust goes everywhere on the left side and then shovelled away eventually...
... If not I just stack it on the forks and deal with it later...

When I had my manual mill, I figured out (eventually :D) that a lot of my material handling problems had to do with the words I underlined above. Once I realized that I began to deal with things right away -- nothing got parked to deal with "later". That really slowed me down ... but it also forced me to think about how to do it better.

Just to be clear, I never worried about having to move stuff (with machinery) at the end of the day. I just tried very hard not to be interrupting my workflow during the day.

Sawdust accumulated in a trench to the side of the mill, to be picked up with a loader once a week (now with the hydraulic mill it's a very deep trench and it gets picked up once every 3 months ;D). Slabs got pushed/dragged off the far end of the mill into slab racks, to be bundled and bucked into manageable lengths that could be picked up with a set of forks. Lumber got pulled off the operator end and piled on bunks, to be picked up with a set of forks and moved to a drying area. And enough logs were laid down on a pair of 6x6's (dead deck) to keep the mill going all day.

So, plan where and how you can store stuff for a day, then put it there directly with no intermediate steps. The longer it takes and the harder it is, the sooner you will figure out how to do it better ;D.

PS: the real message is, making a big change from whatever you do now, no matter how inefficient, will get the creativity flowing ;D.

[btulloh]

Brucer, I see the wisdom of your words.  I'm trying to make the improvements that will achieve those things.  Some of the ideas posted above address the issues.   I have to find some new ways to do things that fit my space and machinery and budget.

One of the great things about the FF is the sharing of ideas and solutions.   Material handling takes a great deal more time than sawing so I know it'll pay off to make some improvements. 

Your phrase ". . . picked up and moved to the drying area" makes it sound like there's a magic sticker zone at your place.    I try to stack and sticker as I saw, but I'm always behind on making sticker pallets.  I'm trying to get ahead of that but I can't quite seem to get enough pallets made.

Thanks for the replies - hoping to see more good ideas -

BT

[btulloh]

I think the most improvement for me is finding a good way to take the lumber off somewhere besides the right side of the mill.  A lot of the stuff I'm sawing right now is heavy and has to be handled one end at a time, so it's sort of worked out to stack off to the right side.  That's the thing I need to change first.  Kbeitz's trailer and kelLOGg's system both address that. 

[DMcCoy]

I too have a manual mill work solo.  You mentioned a tractor with 3 pt forks, I assume that it won't lift high enough for loading of logs onto the mill?
The state forester gets real unhappy with slabs and sawdust mixed together. 
I load logs and unload lumber and slabs from the same side.  I use a lot of 4x4 posts laid flat to allow the tractor forks room to pick up piles.  I also have some heavy sawhorses which will hold a small pile of green lumber or cants.

I have a pallet for the short stringy crap that always seems to be created. this is the stuff I take to a pile and burn. This sits behind me but has tractor access.

Slabs go on 4x4 skids, taken away and cut for firewood later.  I stack finished lumber on the tractor forks which I raise up to mill height.

So in general.  I never set anything on the ground that I might have to pick up unless I do that with the tractor forks, for me this is only slabs for fire wood.  I use my sawhorses or tractor forks to keep everything at working height.  The tractor moves everything if possible.

I'll try and diagram this.

          ++++++Sawdust++++++++

          =======Mill==========

Stringy      Logs/lumber     Slabs
crap           (sawhorses)
pallet         (tractor forks)

[btulloh]

More food for thought, DMcCoy.  Thanks.  Slabs on the right might work for me and keep the sawdust off them.  I like the pallet for stringy crap idea.  I've been throwing that in the slab pile, but it doesn't belong there.

My forks do go high enough to put a log on the mill or I'd be out of bidness.  The forks on the 3pt don't help me stack stuff high though, so I'm losing out on vertical space.  I need the ability to fork pallets up higher.  I want to add some forks to the loader bucket.  It's a 4-in-1 so the commercial forks don't seem right for it.  I have some material to make forks, but it's yet another project on the list.

I've finally sawed enough 4x4 and 6x6 from junk logs to to sit stuff on so it's fork-ready.  Amazing how much blocking a man needs around the mill.

[dboyt]

The problem is that you have three long products (logs, slabs, boards) and only two sides of the mill.  Building a log deck was one of the best things I did to increase the productivity of my one-man manual mill.  A YouTube search for "Sawmill Log Deck" brings up a few videos that might give you some ideas.

A few other ideas: when boards come off, I pull them off the end and swing them around 90° onto blocking, stickering as I go, so I can just pick them up with the loader and move them to the drying area.  Even though I can only pick up about 1,200 pounds at a time, I keep stacks limited to sizes I can move with the loader.  Slabs are offloaded at the other end of the mill, and also turned 90° on blocking for easy pickup.  A lot depends on having room around the mill to work.  Finally, I built a sawdust chute and hang a bucket from it, which I dump into a bin when it fills.  A pain, to be sure, but much quicker than shoveling.  Here's how I do it.


 

[47sawdust]

My mill is under cover and so is the log deck,edger and wagon.I run all my edgings through the edger.I try to arrange them by width.My horses are stout,made of ash.The lumber that comes off the edger is stickered as it is stacked on the wagon.Right now I am sawing 6x6x16 hemlock which is to heavy for me to carry.I added toe rollers to the mill last fall and they are worth every penny.I also have another wagon with a roller conveyor on to roll the beams on to the wagon.When the wagon is full I pick up the beams 6 at a time and take them to be stacked.
I know that some of this does not pertain directly to your needs but I work alone and this is how I do it.It is not ideal but it is what I have at the moment.My methods are evolving as I see what works and what doesn't.
Wagon running gear and multiple sets of horses are two things I wouldn't be without.As you can see from the attached pictures I am surrounded.
Good luck and keep at it.


 



 



 
Toe rollers raised to roll 6x6x16 on to wagon


I wouldn't want to be w/o rollers.At 69 this is still fun.

[btulloh]

All these replies are helpful.  It's good to see how other people are handling materials in and out.  As always, solutions fit the situation.  Some of these apply directly to my setup.  Dboyt's setup is probably the one I can take the most from and apply to mine.  I think I'll put the slabs and lumber both at the foot of the track though, which should work for my layout.  I might use some rollers for the lumber.  Something to work on.

42sawdust said " . . .  6x6x16 hemlock which is to heavy for me to carry"  I don't think I know anybody that can carry that.  I don't even want to carry one end of that.  (Maybe hemlock isn't that heavy, I've never touched any, but 6x6x16 pine would be a beast.)

Anyway, there are some good ideas here that I can adapt for my mill.  I hope there are more to come.  Thanks everyone.

[Kbeitz]

I made pallets that fit my trailer. Everything goes on pallets.
When it's filled I fork the pallet off and a new one on.



 

[cutterboy]

dboyt, I have the same setup as you do. Only difference is my slabs are stacked in a slab rack to be cut into 16" lengths for firewood and my boards are put in the bed of a pickup to be transported to a drying shed, but everything is in the same position. It's interesting that we both own Norwood mills. ;)

[fishfighter]

With my mill, I have a log load deck away from the mill. I just move logs and load them on the mill with a backhoe, slabs go of the left side and finished lumber goes off the end were I stack and sticker. I do have to limit that due to what my tractor can lift with a 3 point hitch hay forks. So I limit those stacks to 20". Besides, the tin I cover with my stacks with are 24".

Slabs, are haul off the  tractor to.

 



 

[etroup10]

For my mill, I have the logs coming in from the left of the mill(need to build a deck yet, but the logs are on higher ground so I set 4x4s up for rolling on the logs). I then have a small "table/deck" on the other side of the mill. While I mill, all my slabs, flitches and boards go there. Then after I cut the log I stack/sticker boards, move the slabs to the slab pile, and sort my flitches by size to edge on the mill. The table is really nice for sorting boards and there isn't any bending over.



The table also saved me a lot of work as seen in this picture  :D

[Sixacresand]

You guys with a FEL/forks tractor are way ahead of the game.  I can produce so much more lumber per day on the road when the customer provides help and has a forked tractor on site.

[gww]

I have to reply to this so it will come up on the short list when I hit the replies to your post button on this site.  I do one thing that I like fairly well since I can not move a finished pallot of boards cause I don't have the equiptment to lift a pallet.

I have a short trailer that I pull with a atv.  As I cut , I load logs from the left, My sawdust goes to the left, my flitches go to the right and the big ones are cut into firewood and stacked as I pull them off the cant.  I Park the trailer to the left and behind the mill.  If I am doing 8/4 boards I park the trailer closer and drag one end of the board to the end of the trailer and then push from the other end by the log to slide them on the trailer.  This at least allows me to only handle one end of a board at a time.  The trailer will hold about 2 good logs worth of boards sometimes a bit more.

I will be watching this thread for ideals to steal as I work alone and sometimes don't even have a tractor.  The tractor really speeds things up and from this thread I can see my board handling could go way down if I could come up with some forks for the loader to move by pallot though it would probly be one log worth of boards at a time cause a 20 inch log will tip the back wheels off the ground due to weight. 



  

  

 
Cheers
gww

[WV Sawmiller]

gww,

   I do the same thing with the trailer. I pull my lumber off my mill onto a 5X8 trailer I tow around with my ATV (I use my ATV for everything including moving my mill around my place and hauling logs with my log arch made for use with it). I do have a hydraulic mill but not adequate support equipment so I throw my flitches on the arms till edged. The design of my WM mill allows me to unload for about 180 degrees at the end (except for the locust tree in the way). When cutting my own stuff I just flat stack it on the trailer then separate and stack it my size and wood type in my shed.

    One issue I run into at customer sites when doing mobile sawing is if they flat stack everything it makes it hard to estimate bf for my payment at the end of the job. We usually just measure and agree on an average length and width and I bill from that. Neither of us gain or lose much in that process.

   My last customer wanted to save the slabs to make molasses this Fall and he stacked all of them upright around a big pine tree under which we were cutting. Most of his logs were short and the 12' ones he cut the slabs in half with his chainsaw. I was amazed how neat a pile that made. All of the slabs from about a 1100 bf job stacked neatly upright teepee fashion.

[gww]

WV
I use the atv for everything.  When I am not using my dads tractor, I will get 4 or five logs on a flatbed trailer and roll them off on the left of my mill.  I then put the atv across the mill from the logs and block the wheels and use a 2000 lbs winch and roll the logs up on the mill.  I have hauled 20 inch wide 13 feet long logs out of my woods with the atv and trailer and using a hand winch to load.
Cheers
gww

[Brucer]

Your phrase ". . . picked up and moved to the drying area" makes it sound like there's a magic sticker zone at your place.    I try to stack and sticker as I saw, but I'm always behind on making sticker pallets.

No, but I wish there was :D. After a few failed experiments, I figured out a system that works fairly well for me.

I mainly make timbers to order, but there is always lumber off the sides of the log. The side lumber will sell eventually, sometimes in large quantities, but I have to stockpile it. I quickly learned that people mainly wanted 1x4, 1x6, and 1x8 in 8', 12', and 16' lengths, so that's 9 different combinations.

I would dry stack the lumber directly off the mill onto a set of low horses. I would sort the boards by size as I stacked them. After a couple of full days of sawing I would pick up the entire stack (with the loader) and move it to my storage area. There I would stack and sticker the wood in the proper piles. Even after I had a hydraulic mill, and edger, and a part time helper we stuck to this method.

That worked fine with softwoods, even in the heat of the summer. The trick was to never leave it dry stacked too long.

When I went hydraulic I soon built some roller tables that let me pull slabs and boards off the front of the mill and roll them to wherever they're to be piled. I was forced to do that just because of the extra volume of wood I could produce. There's no reason not to build roller tables with a manual mill.

I built mine in 8' lengths, with 5 rollers each spaced 2' apart. The sides, ends, and bracing were made from 1" lumber (rough off the mill). I used low cost commercial rollers.

[Kbeitz]

Forks allways helps. This is what I started out with.
I still have it. The forks came off an old electric pallet jack.



 

The machine on the forks is around 1200lbs.



 

I does not cost much to make something like this.



 

[btulloh]

Kbeitz, I can't say that I've ever seen that particular tractor.  What is it?

Adding the forklift forks would be a big plus for me.  Are the hydraulic?  I've been keeping an eye out for something to scrounge but haven't seen anything yet.

[Kbeitz]

Kbeitz, I can't say that I've ever seen that particular tractor.  What is it?

Adding the forklift forks would be a big plus for me.  Are the hydraulic?  I've been keeping an eye out for something to scrounge but haven't seen anything yet.

The tractor goes by many names.



 

I like them enough that I now own 6 of them.



 

This is the electric forklift that I took the forks off of. The unit was 12 volt hydraulic.



 

[etroup10]

Kbeitz, how did you mount the forklift mast to the tractor? Does it have 3pt hitch?