What does a log table need?

[eamassey]

I am working on a home-made mill.  The part I am concerned with now is the "log table".  Is this a reasonable, understandable term?  What I think this means is the platform the log lays on, to include backstops, clamps, turners of various sorts.  I am not constrained by several things others might be constrained by--- no portability requirement, my saw head is not attached to the log table in any way, I can use electric power (or air, or hydraulics) about any way I would want---except that every add-on has a nasty habit of driving up the cost--and adding delays to completion.
I have read mostly all posts over several years that might be helpful to mill design--and have recently ran searches to review.

Now, here is the real specific questions, some of you please help!!
(1)  Backstops.  I was thinking maybe one every 4 feet, for 20 feet.  Hydraulic powered through linking tie-rod(s).  Is 12" (max) height a good length above the log table?
(2) Toeboards.  Two, maybe about 10 feet apart.  Individual hydraulic power up.  Is (max) 8" above the log table enough?
(3) Two-plane clamps.  Two, maybe about 8 feet apart.  Perhaps the one furtherest away should be (manually) movable to be used either in the 8 ft., 10 ft., or 12 ft. positions
(4)  If I do the two-plane clamp, do I need the "Pineywoods" style claw-type turner/clamp?  Or, would I be better off with it instead of the two-plane clamps? 
(5)  Then, do I have any serious need for the "Cook-style" chain type log/cant turner?
Either instead of or in addition to the claw-style and two-planes?

Some of you that have used these devices please help me.

[pineywoods]

As you have probably figured out, the pineywoods setup is a compromise. There are times when a separate clamp and turner would be nice. What brought about the compromise is pure and simple cost. It eliminates 2 control valves, 2 cylinders, a bunch of plumbing and a good bit of fabrication. Unless you are planning on cutting logs over 20 ft long, one turner/clamp of whatever type located about the center should be adequate. Toe rollers - I have only 1 and seldom see the need for another, again a cost reduction.

[Meadows Miller]

Gday

the first thing to consider when building a machine is the type of resource you are going to be sawing on the machine as if it is of a consistent dia range you decide which turner and deck package best suits it if you are planing on sawing abit of everything the two plane dog and turner would work well  ;) but if you where sawing alot of small to med pine ai recon a chain turner would be quicker Mate  ;)

Back stops  I would have three spaced over 6' at a 4' and 2' spacing between them if you are planing on sawing some shorts from time to time  ;) then you would only need another two spaced at say 3 to 4' at each end of that would work well for most sawing  ;) the hight sounds about rite with the tops you could ad rollers like  Wm or just cut them of on a 45deg angle like the Cooks  ;) Just having square tops will have some logs and cants wanting to catch and hang up on them which can be abit of a pita at times Mate  ;)

Toe boards/Tapers if you go 8' of travel that means you could cope with a log that has upto 16" of taper if doing center sawing which is a pretty ugly looking log  ;) :D :D the standard amount of travel in the industry for tapers is 4" which is plenty  ;)

Good luck and keep us posted Mate  ;) ;D 8)

Regards Chris

[Dalrymple]

This is a topic that I'm very interested in, especially the "backstops" part.  Thanks for starting the thread.  I'd like to see some ideas for the backstop attachment to the frame, the pivot design and any adjust ability for squaring it to the frame.

[bandmiller2]

Piney and Chris pretty much covered it I'll make a couple of comments.The 12" hight of the swinging backstops is right,slanted or roller tip boath work well.Best way to mount backstops is with a pipe or heavy shaft from front to rear of the bed with flange bearings at each end sloted for fine adjustment to square,build-em strong they take abuse.Hydraulic backstops tied togather is a good idea as many times with smaller logs they must only swing up a little ways.The two backstops in the middle on each side of the turner should be real stout and no more than 5' or 6' apart unless all your doing is long stuff.As to turner/clamp I've never used the PW turner as I have a two plain.From what I can see the PW is probibly a better turner wile the two plain a better clamp boath will do the deed.I made my log bunks from "U" shaped road sign posts they are plenty strong flat top and free, punched holes every inch or so ideal for the tip of a peavy to snug stuff over.At the backstop end I welded a 1/2"high piece in line with the backstops to hold cants allowing cuts down to 1".I don't have hyd toes just keep several blockes of wood around if I need to raise one end the two plain lifts it and I slide a piece of wood under.You don't want your hyd toes too far apart.Keep us posted on your progress. Frank C.

[Magicman]

(2) Toeboards.  Two, maybe about 10 feet apart.

No more than 8' apart, so you can handle 8' logs.

[eamassey]

This is a topic that I'm very interested in, especially the "backstops" part.  Thanks for starting the thread.  I'd like to see some ideas for the backstop attachment to the frame, the pivot design and any adjust ability for squaring it to the frame.

I have a design drawn up that I thought looked good, but now you make me think perhaps I should make it adjustable.  My design uses 2" x 1" flat stock against the 4" x 4" square tubing main frame, with a 1" shaft.  I doubt that this heavy of stock will get bent, considering the relativly short length.  I will give serious thought to adjustability.

To all other posters, thanks.   I think I will do two toe boards, one, to get the ability to relocate the cant on the two rollers (lengthwise), and I have assumed that one would loak the logs randomly-in terms of which way the big end goes. I'll scale back to 6" lift.
Then, I think I'll build a single two-plane and try it out--then either build another two-plane or a "Pineywoods" turner, depending on what I think after a trial.  Cost does become an issue:  a two-plane clamp takes $100 of steel, $200 of cylinders, $200 of valves, $100 of hydraulic hoses, not to mention my welding and machining time.  Lucky for me my time is free.
eamassey

[Magicman]

All of the major sawmill manufacturers have spent many thousands of $$$ on R&D.  I would look closely at their designs.  They may not have invented all of the good ideas yet, but they do have some.

[Brad_S.]

I am not 100% familiar with the term "two plane" clamp but if it refers to the awkward way Woodmizer uses the clamp to turn a log, then you should seriously consider a chain turner if production is any sort of goal. In past sawmill shootouts, WM would manually turn logs as it was faster than their claw turner.

[paul case]

To all other posters, thanks.   I think I will do two toe boards, one, to get the ability to relocate the cant on the two rollers (lengthwise), and I have assumed that one would loak the logs randomly-in terms of which way the big end goes.
eamassey

i have learned from the f f members that with a bandmill it works better to always cut into logs at the small end and out the big end.this helps avoid some tension problems with the but ends of logs. of course you could just figure to do it like i did and mess up a whole bunch of lumber before you try to figure it out, but i wouldnt recomend it.  ;D pc

[eamassey]

i have learned from the f f members that with a bandmill it works better to always cut into logs at the small end and out the big end.this helps avoid some tension problems with the but ends of logs.   ;D pc
[/quote]

Thanks, Paul Case.   These are the kind of things I just don't know about.  I prefer to not learn the hard way.

All of the major sawmill manufacturers have spent many thousands of $$$ on R&D.  I would look closely at their designs.  They may not have invented all of the good ideas yet, but they do have some.

Magicman--- I fully agree.  It is really hard to beat the designers who are working in thier specialties when you (that's me) are not.  I can tell you, looking back, I should have bought a mill instead of trying to build one.  But, my mill will be better in some ways than what you could buy.  Cheap, not so much.  The only reasons it is cheap at all is that I have done all welding/machining/assembly/painting/etc myself, and I accumulated bargain (but all are new!) components when possible over several years.
When I saw the first board, maybe sometime this summer, I will post some photos.
eam