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sawmill drive side

Started by old hippie, May 03, 2013, 09:07:54 PM

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old hippie

hello to all I am building my own band mill and I have been gathering all my material
got most of it now .but what I need to know is witch side is best to drive my blade right or left standing behind it seems one should pull the blade through the cut not push all I need is my motor and I have everything. also I have a lift gate hydraulic pump 12 volt .and four foot cylinder for power up and down will use with pulleys to pull even think this will work? ill have to charge my batt I know but no cranking.
Tbennett

thecfarm

old hippe,welcome to the forum. I have a manual mill,and I push the head. I have to walk through my sawdust,but I like it that way because I have 2 logs that I put my logs onto and I would have to shovel around that. nothing in the way where I walk.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

lyle niemi


dgdrls

Welcome OH,

I think drive side will depend on direction of rotation of your motor,
My LT 10 drove clockwise from the operation position behind the head
pushing it through a log

best DGD

losttheplot

Standing behind my Norwood, the driven wheel is the one on the left.
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

fishpharmer

Welcome to FF Old Hippie!! 8)

Seems like you could turn the motor around to switch rotation.  One thing I have noticed on most factory mills is that the blade pushes the logs torward the backstops.  On my homemade mill the blade cutting edge travels left to right (looking at it from behind the carriage).  The cool thing about building a mill is you can make it how you like it.

Lots of homemade mills on FF ,  do a search and look at some builds in photo galleries.  We will be glad to help.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

old hippie

I can set it up however to me pulling the blade would be better than pushing .front
wheel drive car you know what I mean.
Tbennett

mikeb1079

that's why you must play di drum...to blow the big guys mind!
homebuilt 16hp mill
99 wm superhydraulic w/42hp kubota

old hippie

on a lot of mills the drive will pushes the blade not pulls on it I can put my log stops
either side so my log will still pull into the stops on some across the pond posts on other boards say most us mills are dumb they bind and brake more blades work the motors harder . I don't know just asking iam sure someone knows thanks for the imput
Tbennett

thecfarm

Now I think i know what you asked. Good question really. I have no idea how other mills are but mine teeth are pointing to the right as I am standing behind the motor.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

justallan1

Welcome to the forum Old Hippie.
On my mill if you are standing behind it the drive wheel is on the left pulling the band, which makes sense in my way of thinking.
Allan

5quarter

Hippie...welcome to the FF. Try cutting a board with a long, narrow crosscut handsaw. it will have a tendency to bind on the push stroke. Cut the same board with a japanese hand saw which cuts on the pull stroke. No binding. Imagine the Havoc resulting from pushing a  12' + bandsaw blade that binds at 60 mph. No need to reinvent the wheel (so to speak ;) ). Don't be afraid to use proven designs. There is plenty of room to make improvements or tweak to your needs. Tell us a bit more about the specs of your build. If you can post pictures, please do.
What is this leisure time of which you speak?
Blue Harbor Refinishing

losttheplot

Quote from: old hippie on May 03, 2013, 10:20:41 PM
on a lot of mills the drive will pushes the blade not pulls on it

How do you tell if the blade is being pushed or pulled by the driven wheel  ?   ???
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

Northern Spots

Welcome to the forum , and that's all I can help with as I'm a circular guy!
2013 Mobile Dimension Saw , 683 Bobcat, 365 Husky And a wife willing to run them all !!!

old hippie

ok standing behind the mill the blade teeth turn to the right on my briggs motor looking at the shaft it turns counter clock wise so if I mount it on the right side
that seems the drive side would pull the blade into the log and stops if it was on the left wheel it would push it through. what about my lift gate pump my ram is two way
but I would extend it down to one inch from my deck and it would be power up and gravity down with a small spool with pulleys and cable to work both sides even .will send lots of pics soon thanks
Tbennett

Ljohnsaw

Ok, how about another way to look at it:

Take a normal shop bandsaw. You rest your work on the table and the band travels down toward the table. This keeps your work down. Now look at the drive mechanics. It is the lower wheel that is powered. It "pulls" the blade. Now rotate it 90 degrees and you have your bandmill. The drive wheel should be behind the log stops "pulling" the blade through the log.

You need to keep the tension on the blade where "pushing" from the other wheel can cause issues - speaking strictly from a theroretical point of view!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

bandmiller2

Good form to pull the saw through the wood.That would mean driving the left band wheel although it would probably work OK ether way.My best suggestion would be to look at several factory built mills and get ideas.Oh and welcome.If you take care and build it right you can build a bandmill that will do as good a job as factory,thats how those folks got started. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

drobertson

Maybe confused again, but I am thinking that the blade should be pulled thru the cut, against the back stops of the mill,  all said whatever works is all that counts,   david
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

elk42

 John and Bandmiller
  You are correct; It would like trying to push a rope or chain
Machinist Retired, Lt15 WM 25 HP, Stihl 044, Stihl 311, Kubota M2900w/FEL, KUBOTA L4800 w/FEL,
Lincoln Ranger 10,000, stihl 034,

losttheplot

If the driven wheel is on the right side of the log, looking at the back of the mill, would it pull the band through the log, around the idler wheel and onto the top edge of itself ? 

would the band know weather it is being pushed or pulled ?  ???
DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK !

Ljohnsaw

The "rub" comes in when there is a bind.  If the band is being "pushed" through the cut and it binds (hits a nail?) near the exit, an amount of play in the structure will allow the band "pulled" the long way around to potentially "grow".  That is, the tension mechanism or the structure itself will allow the blade to continue (albeit a tiny fraction) around the dive wheel - "pushing" more blade into the log, potentially making it bend or kink.  A rope does not push as well as it can pull!

Better to design to avoid than to design and hope to avoid an issue!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

DeepWoods

Old Hippie, first, welcome to the FF.  Your question on which wheel to power really got me thinking.  My first thought was that you should mount your engine on the pull side because it is easier to pull the blade through than to push it through.  As other members chimed in with their comments, it made me think even more. 

While I agree that a lot of the comments sound good, something was missing or being left out of the equation.  I agree that a Japanese saw cuts better on the pull stroke, just as I agree that the blade should pull the log into the backstops.  And as far as pushing or pulling a chain or rope, well it reminded me of an old joke. 

A guy is walking down the road pulling a fifty foot chain behind him, he meets another guy that asks him, "Hey buddy, why you pulling that fifty foot chain?".  To which he replies, " You ever try pushing a fifty foot chain". 

The more I thought about it I came to the conclusion that others did, and that was how does the blade know if it is being pushed or pulled?  In all the of the responses given, it still seemed like something was missing.  As I was laying in bed last night still trying to solve this in my head, it came to me.

I'm sure by now I've lost some of you, and you have stopped reading and moved on to another post.  Or as my Wife calls it' "Chuckerizing".  As in the Peanuts cartoon when the teacher is talking on and on, and on, and all Charlie Brown hears is "Whaaaa Whaa Whaa Whaa Whaaaaa".

Just lost a few more.

Back to me laying in bed.  I was under a lot of tension trying to solve the problem.  Lots and lots of tension.  Thats when it came to me.  Tension, that is what makes the blade do its work.  That was what was missing from the equation.  That's why you can't push a chain.  It isn't under any tension.  But wait, I can push a chain under tension.  I do it every time I start up my chain saw. 

Think about this.  A chain saw can be used either way, pulling or pushing the chain.  Now some of you are asking "What has this guy been smoking".   When I cut through a log with my chain saw, I am pulling the chain on the bottom of the bar against the saw.  But wait there's more.  When I want to undercut a log so it doesn't pinch my bar, I am cutting on the top of the bar pushing the chain through the log.  It works equally as well.  The only difference is I have nothing to keep the saw from pushing it out of the log but my own strength.  But what if I put a stop on the end of the bar to catch it from running out of the log.  It would cut just as well pushing as it does pulling.  As long as the chain is tensioned enough, it makes no difference.  The blade doesn't know or care, it just does its job under tension.

So there is the answer you were looking for.  It makes no difference which wheel you power.  Use other design features to dictate which side you mount your engine on.  As long as you have have your backstops on the side that your blade exits the log, it will make the cut, as long as you have the blade under tension.

For those of you that stuck it out to the end, all I can say is,

Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?

(Crickets chirping.)
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

Alyeska Pete

Re: Deepwoods
Not a good analogy. The chain is still being pulled under tension thru the log no matter if you cut down or up with the bar.

DeepWoods

DanG, more sleepless nights ::)
Norwood LM2000 with 23 HP Briggs and 21 foot track, Hand Built Logging Arch, Cooks Cat Claw Sharpener and Setter. 48" Xtreme Duty Logrite Cant Hook.

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: DeepWoods on May 06, 2013, 10:29:17 AM
Old Hippie, first, welcome to the FF.  Your question on which wheel to power really got me thinking.  My first thought was that you should mount your engine on the pull side because it is easier to pull the blade through than to push it through.  As other members chimed in with their comments, it made me think even more. 

While I agree that a lot of the comments sound good, something was missing or being left out of the equation.  I agree that a Japanese saw cuts better on the pull stroke, just as I agree that the blade should pull the log into the backstops.  And as far as pushing or pulling a chain or rope, well it reminded me of an old joke. 

A guy is walking down the road pulling a fifty foot chain behind him, he meets another guy that asks him, "Hey buddy, why you pulling that fifty foot chain?".  To which he replies, " You ever try pushing a fifty foot chain". 

The more I thought about it I came to the conclusion that others did, and that was how does the blade know if it is being pushed or pulled?  In all the of the responses given, it still seemed like something was missing.  As I was laying in bed last night still trying to solve this in my head, it came to me.

I'm sure by now I've lost some of you, and you have stopped reading and moved on to another post.  Or as my Wife calls it' "Chuckerizing".  As in the Peanuts cartoon when the teacher is talking on and on, and on, and all Charlie Brown hears is "Whaaaa Whaa Whaa Whaa Whaaaaa".

Just lost a few more.

Back to me laying in bed.  I was under a lot of tension trying to solve the problem.  Lots and lots of tension.  Thats when it came to me.  Tension, that is what makes the blade do its work.  That was what was missing from the equation.  That's why you can't push a chain.  It isn't under any tension.  But wait, I can push a chain under tension.  I do it every time I start up my chain saw. 

Think about this.  A chain saw can be used either way, pulling or pushing the chain.  Now some of you are asking "What has this guy been smoking".   When I cut through a log with my chain saw, I am pulling the chain on the bottom of the bar against the saw.  But wait there's more.  When I want to undercut a log so it doesn't pinch my bar, I am cutting on the top of the bar pushing the chain through the log.  It works equally as well.  The only difference is I have nothing to keep the saw from pushing it out of the log but my own strength.  But what if I put a stop on the end of the bar to catch it from running out of the log.  It would cut just as well pushing as it does pulling.  As long as the chain is tensioned enough, it makes no difference.  The blade doesn't know or care, it just does its job under tension.

So there is the answer you were looking for.  It makes no difference which wheel you power.  Use other design features to dictate which side you mount your engine on.  As long as you have have your backstops on the side that your blade exits the log, it will make the cut, as long as you have the blade under tension.

For those of you that stuck it out to the end, all I can say is,

Bueller?... Bueller?... Bueller?

(Crickets chirping.)

I read your whole post......... Now I need a beer. It's five-o-clock somewhere, right?   ;D

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