Hydraulic Sawmill

charles mann · August 20, 2018, 02:47:09 PM

What about using chain to drive the band wheels?

Ljohnsaw · August 20, 2018, 04:24:12 PM

Quote from: charles mann on August 20, 2018, 02:47:09 PM
What about using chain to drive the band wheels?

Would work well except that you need to keep it lubed and that is going to attract a LOT of sawdust. I think there would be a sawdust build up problem - more so than v-belts sometimes get. The maintenance would be a little higher with chain than v-belts. On the positive side, it wouldn't slip!

Hilltop366 · August 20, 2018, 06:33:43 PM

Welcome to the forum charles mann.

A chain will be noisier than the a belt (thinking back to my motorcycling days) but it may not matter because the blade in the wood will be noisier than the chain.

Perhaps a plus of a chain will not need near as much tension as a belt which will put less side load on bearings.

I forget the exact "rules" for chain but there is a way to chose the sprocket sizes that works better for less vibration and longer wear. I'm thinking it is to avoid a tooth count that will divide evenly into each other. An example is a 6 tooth drive and a 24 tooth driven would cause more vibration and faster wear than if it was a 7tooth drive and a 24tooth driven.

Unless you will continue to find extra large logs I would think hiring out the sawing for those ones could be a bargain, don't forget you have to transport those monsters too.

Southside · August 20, 2018, 09:35:23 PM

Helos can fly on piston engines too... but is it a good idea? Drive belts last a long time, barring some odd band break and they are actually cheap for the hours you get out of one. I would build your drive and connection to match with a commercially available triple belt and call it good.

The other issue is clutching a chain vs a belt which just slips into tension. You do need a weak point in the system and having a belt slip is a lot better than having a chain break apart at 2500 RPM.

Satamax · August 20, 2018, 11:58:35 PM

Charles Mann, reading your thread made me think about this. Hydraulic driven bandwheel.

Loglogic Autotrek Sawmill Promo Video - YouTube

Sorry for the annoying music.

As for power plants, isn't there many us pickups fitted with 4BT engines?

charles mann · August 21, 2018, 12:21:42 AM

Quote from: Southside logger on August 20, 2018, 09:35:23 PM
Helos can fly on piston engines too... but is it a good idea?

The other issue is clutching a chain vs a belt which just slips into tension. You do need a weak point in the system and having a belt slip is a lot better than having a chain break apart at 2500 RPM.

Helis have been flying on piston engines since the early 40s, and are still produced today.
Turbines came into play bc of the power to weight ration. The engine on my hele is a lil over 4000 shp and weighs in around 1500 lbs wet and including the nose box.
Belts are not out of the question, was just inquiring bout them and their longevity and drive cababilities over belts.
Id stock an extra set of belts or chain and sprockets, which ever way i go.

charles mann · August 21, 2018, 01:51:45 AM

Quote from: Hilltop366 on August 20, 2018, 06:33:43 PM
Welcome to the forum charles mann.

A chain will be noisier than the a belt (thinking back to my motorcycling days) but it may not matter because the blade in the wood will be noisier than the chain.

Unless you will continue to find extra large logs I would think hiring out the sawing for those ones could be a bargain, don't forget you have to transport those monsters too.

I'm sure that diesel engine will drown out the chain noise, along with the band cutting through the wood.
trust, i haven't forgot about those big logs. iv loaded the black walnut 2x, red oak 4x and both my live oaks 2x already. my tractor with 3ooo# of lift wont even budge the pecan logs. since iv moved everything but the pecan to another location on my property, ill set my mill up by them first, mill them and haul them to my conex kiln a few boards at a time, since i have to haul them inside the conex 1 at a time. once that stuff is milled, ill put the axles under it and haul it over to the pecans and winch them to the mill since the logs are off the side of my driveway and i don't want to block it.
i do have a place I'm harvesting red oak off of and there are 5 more trees in the 36"-42" range. once those are milled, ill relocate my idler wheel closer to the drive for anything under 36".

charles mann · August 21, 2018, 02:16:22 AM

Quote from: Satamax on August 20, 2018, 11:58:35 PM
As for power plants, isn't there many us pickups fitted with 4BT engines?

if there are, I'm not finding any, and the engine i am finding are 2000 miles away in the northwest or here in tx, they want a 1/4 of a gold bar for them. 2 appeared today, 1 running, but wants $3500 for it and the other 1, needs a starter, radiator, cooling hoses, alternator, wiring for the electrical system and he want $3000, but it comes with a spare head, 4000 rpm governor spring, 47RE xmsn, engine stand extra peanut cover, water pump and he said a bunch of other stuff, but didn't list it, just said to come to houston and take a look see. its had the p-pump turned up and the fire ringed the head. i have no use for the xmsn, but the stock head, water pump and peanut cover might come in handy.

hell, the price of either engine is already just under half the allocated build cost. I'm gonna have to pinch pennies to be able to buy the band wheels, guides, carriage wheels, and i haven't even gotten to the lifting of the head yet in my budgeting.
i havent figured the lifting part out yet. i was thinking of using linear rails and guide bearings and either 1.5" or 2" acme rod, and still might, but i also thought about welding up a box to go around the carriage vertical support beams and bolting on 1/4" UHMW on all 4 side of each beam and drill/ tap for a grease zerk fitting and scrubbers to clean the UHMW as the head moves up or down. when UHMW is wet/greased, it is slicker than owl poop on a hickory limb
i may go as some have mentioned, winch cable, but instead of the electric winch, go hydraulic winch.
there are a LOT of small things in haven't worked out yet, gonna play it by ear as i build and keep reading and asking questions. i just can't read what someone types and understand it, nor hear the words and put it together. i am a monkey see, monkey do kind of monkey.

Satamax · August 21, 2018, 02:38:30 PM

CharlesCharles, nother source of engines, old farm equipement. Old combines, tractors, backhoes etc.

charles mann · August 24, 2018, 02:32:54 AM

Quote from: Satamax on August 21, 2018, 02:38:30 PM
CharlesCharles, nother source of engines, old farm equipement. Old combines, tractors, backhoes etc.

thank you for your insight. i followed your advise and started looking, but folks are wanting as much for them old tractors/equipment as 1 of the motors mentioned above. i decided to inquire about the running unit, and the guy said it was a ground power cart from an airport and that he would sell it for 3k just to get rid of it. i figure before separating the motor, id see about getting the power cart fixed, producing electricity, and then divorce the motor and put an electric motor in place of the diesel and use the electrical side at my hanger, or maybe sell it, depending what it will cost to make spark. thank you for your input. i hadn't thought about old farm/construction equipment.

tacks Y · August 24, 2018, 08:08:59 AM

Sorry a little late to this. There is/was a Logmaster LM5 on Ebay. They ran the band with hyd, you may want to take a look and call LM for advise.

tacks Y · August 24, 2018, 08:11:25 AM

Sorry just looked at Ebay and did not see it.

ladylake · August 24, 2018, 08:25:56 AM

The LM5 is using a 85 HP Cummins with maybe 60 hp to the blade. Steve

mike_belben · August 24, 2018, 09:52:23 AM

30gpm at 2000psi is gonna want 40 hp (at below 3000rpm, preferably 2000 rpm ) plus substantial cooling and a whole lot of 1" hoses. Its gonna be a serious project.

Id look at refer takoff units for a 3 cylinder steady state governed diesel. Find a running thermoking on CL or a truck wrecker. Youll get the motor, radiator and sufficient cooling all in one tidy unit. Just get your pump, tank and return filters grafted into the cabinet and itll look pretty sharp.

For salvage hydraulics, scrapped bean pickers, trenchers, fairway mowers and tennant sweepers have a lot of otherwise very expensive high end compentry you wouldnt find elsewhere that are adaptable to debarking and sawing. The old stuff all ran popular american branded componentry that is still generally rebuildable. Eaton charlynn vickers sunstrand etc etc

Crusarius · August 24, 2018, 12:46:26 PM

I have a straight six high output 4.0 liter out of a Jeep. Complete. TBI. I keep trying to find a good place to use it since I can't seem to sell it to anyone.

Thought about putting a generator head on it and converting everything on the mill to run electric.

mike_belben · August 24, 2018, 01:04:36 PM

Build a doodlebug.

Crusarius · August 24, 2018, 01:08:56 PM

? doodlebug? you should see what comes up when you google that

Magicman · August 24, 2018, 02:38:45 PM

Yup, we called Antlions "Doodlebugs".

Southside · August 24, 2018, 09:08:04 PM

Any chance that is the same thing as a Jitterbug?

mike_belben · August 24, 2018, 10:15:49 PM

Maybe its a yankee term?

Home made truck tractor, typically was model A's way back when. These days it tends to be an old 2ton truck. Dual transmissions, minimal tin, tractor tires or chained up duals, etc.

Magicman · August 24, 2018, 10:21:36 PM

Quote from: Southside logger on August 24, 2018, 09:08:04 PM
Any chance that is the same thing as a Jitterbug?

It's a dance, a fishing lure, and a cheap cell phone, but I can not find any Jitterbug insect. :P

Southside · August 24, 2018, 10:28:45 PM

Mike pretty well described it. Basically it's any older vehicle, usually 4WD that has become a woods buggy and has the scars to prove it. Won't have any glass, very little sheet metal, no exhaust, probably has head lights of some sort, and big tires.