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Career Change

Started by ac904, November 04, 2018, 07:41:30 PM

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ac904

Hello all,

I am interested in a career in forestry and would appreciate your input.  I apologize in advance for the length of this but I want to provide a clear picture for you all to make suggestions.  

I am currently 25 and living in FL.  I am unhappy with my current career and have become very interested in forestry since talking at length with a buddy of mine who works for a private timber company.  
I've always loved the outdoors (fishing, hunting, etc) which was my initial attraction to forestry and after asking him a number of questions I feel like it would be a great career for me. 

I currently have an associates degree as a Physical Therapist Assistant so at this point I do not have any education/experience geared towards forestry.  Are there any companies or forestry agencies that offer "ride alongs" or "shadowing" opportunities that could provide more insight about the job itself?  The last thing I want to do is acquire student debt and spend the next three years in school completing the degree (at UF) only to find the job isn't what I thought it was.  
To provide clarification I would need to complete 22 credit hours at a local state college before transferring to the forestry program at UF.  My associates degree was from a private medical school.  A bit like a trade school for therapists, nurses, etc.  I have some college credit from UCF but I was younger and stupid so I wasn't there long. 

My next question is in regard to the job market itself.  Are many companies hiring foresters? How hard is it to find a job right out of college? At this point I am interested in the private timber company route and staying in the south but I have an open mind and would be more than interested to learn about other career pathways/fields for foresters in the southeast region other than private timber companies. 

Finally, one of the things I find frustrating about my current career is the metaphorical ceiling.  As a physical therapist assistant your experience may grow but your position and salary never do.  As a forester what is the upward mobility as you gain experience in your career? Is additional education required? I do not have any intentions of becoming "rich" as a forester but I would like to know if my position and salary grow with experience and what are the potential options there. Especially considering the fact that I will be paying student loans for quite some time should I decide to pursue this.

Any wisdom would be appreciated!

thecfarm

You have to be happy in life.
 I use to work in a factory. There was a guy that that complained about the job all day long. And I mean ALL day long. AND day after day. I use to tell him the same thing as the first line of this post,day after day. I would tell him,if I was that unhappy I would of quit a long time ago. A very unhappy person. Well after years,he did quit.  I went to another crew or he did,so lost track of him.One day at the bank,I would think 20 years later,here he come,right towards me. Oh great,Mr. gloom and doom.  ::)  He walked up to me and shake my hand and was all smiles. He told me I took your advice and quit and went to another job. Did not like that one and quit that one. I think I had 40 jobs and finally found the one I like. Thank you for the advice. He was a changed man!!! I told him that too. He was a joy to talk too.  I could not believe that was the same guy.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Wudman

Below is my response copied from another post a little over a month ago.......

"On our end of the business it is a pretty good time for young foresters looking for jobs.  I'm in land management for one of the TIMOs.  My colleagues are getting a bit long in the tooth.  I'm one of the younger guys at 51.  A large percentage of our foresters are over 60 years old and will be looking to retire in the next few years.  We have had a difficult time attracting qualified candidates to fill our open positions.

Students interested in pursuing "dirt" forestry has waned in recent years.  There are not a lot of kids coming out of school that want to fight the heat, mosquitos, deer flies, and ticks to cruise timber or conduct inventories.  We are seeing a lot of folks interested in GIS and Computer applications as well as the "Environmental" side of things.  I've been in this business for 30 years and enjoy what I do.  I don't dread going to work in the morning.  I've been able to make a decent living.  Had I been a little more frugal, retirement would have been a possibility in the near future.  However, I'll keep on working as long as the Good Lord will allow.  At some time, it may be on my own terms.

I'll be headed to VA Tech on Monday for their annual College of Forestry career fair.  We are actively recruiting candidates......so, yes it is a good time for young foresters.  Drop me a PM and I will give you my contact information if you would like to talk.  I'm happy to answer any questions that I can.  Good luck to you.  Just so you know, VA Tech is the number one rated forestry school in the nation.  Go Hokies!"

If you can survive a week in the woods in Central Florida during July, you can survive anywhere.  I worked on a project years ago in Perry.  It was the toughest place I have ever been......and I have seen plenty of Carolina Bays.  Permanone will be one of your best friends.

Wudman
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
Charlie Daniels
July 4, 2020 (2 days before his death)

RPF2509

I'll agree with Wudman.  A good time to get into forestry.  Here out west its the same - aging foresters - technician jobs going wanting, unfilled forester positions.  You will be a brush monkey the first few years, flagging, painting and measuring.  Once you learn the ropes, the sky's the limit.  Most managerial positions have an advanced degree of some kind but not always.  A business background would help on the upward climb because trees are money, especially in the private sector.  Private companies will hire techs with no experience as long as the will is there.  Early winter is a good time to start looking for a summer job, esp if you are flexible and can start early.  Most companies will work with you as you work for a degree - internships, part time employment - there are a lot of options.  Look to your state forester or local Society of American foresters chapter to meet folks and start networking.  I imagine even in Florida with the snakes, heat and bugs, a day in the woods beats a day in the office any time.

mike_belben

I am a homesteader who does a (very insignificant) bit of everything including logging for myself, logging for others, hauling and selling logs for best return and trying to maximize timber growth on my land.  so thats my background. nothing professional, but the lessons ive learned have been dictated by raw economics out of my own slim wallet so theyve been precise.  Ive felt the sting of every single mistaken cut right on the spot.

If i were personally hiring a forestor for a sale it'd be to make me max return on my limited acreage.  That means getting best money for each grade of fiber each acre produced.  So thorough is what pays best per acre.  Making best money in the timber business is from experience and contacts with mills, exporters, veneer and stave buyers etc.  If you want to make good money in anything, you need to be sought after by the market's buyers. You get sought after by building a reputation for being dang good at what you do and being honest.   Becoming a boss timber marker or sale broker isnt gonna happen in a year and it isnt gonna happen in a classroom.  You can have a  masters degree in forestry from a prestigious school and still be mediocre at getting money for the client.

The private client cares about the money. Not the science, not the eco green carbon offset mumbo jumbo, thats for clueless people who live in highrise apartments. People who actually own real trees care about the money, period.  It costs money to own that land.  Returns are king or itll be converted out of timber for more profitable, shorter duration product. 

So my point here is dont sweat the college part.  Sweat the experience part, get saw chips in your pockets any way you can, get involved with logs coming off the stump, onto the truck and delivered to the mill.  Walk and talk with the mill scaler, learn what is he marking and why.  learn your grades, learn your defects, what species go to what products, and who is starving for each type/species/grade of log.  Always ask what the biggest mistakes are and try to keep this list fresh in your mind so youll stay off it. A hungry logger running his own one man show can tell you where to get best money for what just like a scrapper in a worn out truck.  He cant afford to be wasteful. Waste is for people with excess resources.   If you can become that person who doles out every spec of wood on a sale for best dollar then youll be the guy whos got that reputation for putting great money on the table.  The phone will ring.  Everyone wants to hire the best guy they can afford.  No one says im looking to spend mediocre money on mediocre performance. Those who have top dollar demand top service.  

Loggers are always hiring laborers.  A few months on the ground trying to make logs pay will tell you if you really like forestry or not. And the experience will be very valuable if you do go forward. Maybe you find out you absolutely love running a forwarder out in the bush with the radio and heat set exactly the way you want it every day.  Theres cubicles with a lot worse of a view.

Anyhow, get started at something.  The clock is always ticking.
Praise The Lord

lxskllr

I'll second Mike's advice. I'm in a different industry(surveying), and I regularly have to deal with bone headed decisions by engineers. I'm sure they made it through school with acceptable grades, and they clearly knew enough to get licensed, but some of them have no idea what happens on a construction site, or how the physical world works. It's all just numbers on a paper, without regard to what it takes to get the work done. They send engineering students out to sites to "inspect" for the summer. I've yet to see one get their hands dirty, or take any interest in the process of what's happening. They just screw around on their phones, and watch machines move.

I'd love to teach students what actually happens on a site, and how to make things a little nicer for everybody, but nobody asks me. We did have one kid that worked a couple summers for us surveying in the field. Very bright, and a joy to work with. He paid attention, and understood what he was seeing. If he didn't, he asked. He went on to the Citadel, and is now a professional engineer. I bet he does things right.

All of which is to say, there's no substitute for *doing* what you want. School and theory only take you so far. Imo, to be good, you have to do it.

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