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Boring a White Cedar

Started by Kevin, March 20, 2004, 05:22:09 PM

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Kevin

A few pictures from today ...

Removing the stress from a leaning --Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.--Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.--Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.--Photos MUST be in the Forestry Forum gallery!!!!!--.com/photo/74882584/126952134QRkGok

Duane_Moore

 8)Cool pictures Kevin. Keep it up.  like them  8) 8)Duh---Duane
village Idiot---   the cat fixers----  I am not a complete Idiot. some parts missing.

rebocardo

Cool pix, btw, love those tracks!

Kevin

Me too!  :D
I can go deep woods now.  :D


Hunter

Thats a really nice rig. Is that an Argo or Max?
Hunter
Jmccomas@insight.rr.com
614-554-2169
Dolmar / Efco / Redmax / Silvey Grinders Sales



Kevin

Thanks, that's the Argo Conquest.

Stephen_Wiley

Hey Kevin,

That butt log appeared to have quite a bit of heart rot.

Are most of the trees your dealing with in similar condition ?

" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

Kevin

Many cedars on my property have that Stephen.
Any idea what causes it?
The ground is very wet.

Frickman

Kevin, why did you cut the stump so high? Was it because of the rot on the butt? Many times we have to cut a high stump in poplar to get good wood for a hinge. Then we cut it low after the tree is down.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

Rocky_J

For non-loggers, it is normally much easier to cut the notch above the root flare. This allows you to cut a smaller diameter at a more comfortable height without working as hard. Then come back and cut the stump off low without worrying about a tree falling at the same time.

Corley5

In the cedar swamp we worked in this winter heart rot was spotty.  There'd be a group of two to maybe six trees that had bad centers and the ones around them would be fine.  I cut all the big ones as low as I could as buyers are after big cedar with the butt flares still on them for use as porch posts etc.  If a tree was obviously bad it didn't matter and I cut it off where ever it was convenient.  High dollar timber should be cut as low as possible.  Whenever I cut any especially hard maple I cut it as close to the ground as I can.  It's worth too much to leave a two foot high stump
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

Kevin

That stump is about a foot off the ground just a little above the root flare.
The third picture down shows the end of the butt log with the root flare.
I dug out around the bottom of the tree with a shovel and couldn't cut much lower without running the saw in the snow.
If I leave too much of the root flare I just end up cutting it all off on the mill.
If this was a hardwood veneer log I would have used a humboldt notch instead of the conventional.
I'll go back in the Spring when the snow is gone and take the stumps right down to the ground.

Frickman

Thanks for the info Kevin.
If you're not broke down once in a while, you're not working hard enough

I'm not a hillbilly. I'm an "Appalachian American"

Retired  Conventional hand-felling logging operation with cable skidder and forwarder, Frick 01 handset sawmill

Pretend farmer when I have the time

Stephen_Wiley

QuoteMany cedars on my property have that Stephen.
Any idea what causes it?
The ground is very wet.

Most likely from the pics you have shown:

I would suspect Phaeolus schweinitzii known as Brown Cubical Butt Rot -or- Velvet Top Fungus.

Due to the reddish brown rot and yellow incipient staining seen in the logs from the downed pics.

This particular fungus can also work as a root rot, and under your wet soil conditions maybe doing so.

Other possibles:

Postia sericeomollis
aka. Oligoporus -or- Tyromyces balsameus
also known as ' Pocket Rot '

-also-

Poria subcida -aka- Perenniporia
also known as ' Stringy Butt Rot '. However, the extent of decay in your pics does not indicate this pathogen

I did not look closely at the species in your pic. I assume it to be Thuja occidentalis Northern White Cedar.  

Let me know if it is possibly Chamaecyparis thyoides Atlantic White Cedar. Not having worked or been in your neck of the woods. I went by native range for species availability.
" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

Kevin

It's the Eastern White Cedar ...  arbor-vitae
http://www.domtar.com/arbre/english/p_thuya.htm

For a tree that is very rot resistant it sure doesn't stand up to heart decay.

Stephen_Wiley

That is the problem with species characteristics. Although they are described as disease resistant. Once in stress or hardship with an active pathogen (in an environment which favors the pathogen) they are just as susceptible as any other species.

Thuja occidentallis - Northern White Cedar is commonly known as arborvitae, and the tree pictured in the url you showed appears very similar to the ones I have showing Northern White Cedar.  Do you know if  EWC has a different cultivar name such as: Thuja xxxxxxxxx ?

Bark and leaves from these trees have been used for medicinal purposes for some time now. Bark is considered to be high in vitamin C.


" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

Kevin

QuoteDo you know if  EWC has a different cultivar name such as: Thuja xxxxxxxxx ?

No, I'm sorry I don't.

SwampDonkey

On the topic on disease resistance:

I don't know of any NA species any more resistant to decay than Yellow Cypress C. Nootkatensis. We had to cruise even the dead fallen cypress for volume. The sap wood would be pretty much shot, but the heartwood was just fine. Chop into it with an axe and it smelled as if you just cut a green one. I seen the odd cypress that would look like just a stub standing there and you step around the back side of the tree (is there a backside on a tree? :D) and there'd be a strip of bark up the side of the tree for 100 feet supporting life. Or you might find a tree that the remaining bark stripped away from a stub and still supporting life. I think the quickest way to break yellow cypress down is by fire. Red cedar is pretty resiliant too, we've found CMT's (culturally modified trees) which were sometimes felled trees with partial excavations for canoes or carved totems. For some reason the natives would leave the tree without finishing it into a canoe or totem. Anyway some of those trees were cut 400 years ago, most only 80 - 150 years. We were also on an old burnt cedar forest cruising dead red cedar for volume along with 40 year old spruce and hemlock regen errm :-/ . That's where we needed the two 7.5 meter d-tapes to measure around the diameters. :D Well they called them dead veteren trees and they had merchantable volume. ;)


cheers
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

slowzuki

Thuja occidentalis L.

The full name for eastern white cedar.  I don't know if the L sets it apart from white or not.

Our property is covered in them.  The butt rot is sort of random as well. Some will grow large tall and straight, be solid through.  Others are looking like old cedar fence rails before they even come down!

A neighbour tells me the cedar rail fence that runs all the way around our property looks the same now as it did in 1940.  He said everyone had miles and miles of that fence running everywhere.  Must have been a pile of cedars here at one time!

QuoteThuja occidentallis - Northern White Cedar is commonly known as arborvitae, and the tree pictured in the url you showed appears very similar to the ones I have showing Northern White Cedar.  Do you know if  EWC has a different cultivar name such as: Thuja xxxxxxxxx ?


SwampDonkey

slowzuki:

The L. is the authority , whom is Carolus  Linnaeus, 1707-1778, Swedish botanist. If the authority is in brachets (L.) followed by a name like  Rich. it means that the nominaclature has been changed by another authority "Rich." from the orginal classification done by Linnaeus. Example: bald cypress Taxodium distichum (L.) Rich.

cheers
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

VK540_1

Just wondering what is removing stress. When do you know a tree is stressed, how do you remove it, what happens if you don't remove it. I've been recreational logging for years cutting mostly white cedar to be band sawed, but never heard of removing stress from a tree before felling it.

FeltzE

Well the first step in removing stress is talking to it... Take a chair, a radio and tune in to an easy listening station and talk quietyly to the tree in soothing tones.

 :P

If a branch snaps off and swipes you across the head, try a different station and sit farther away....it's not working. ::)

VK540_1

LOL  :DThat won't work, only have 1 radio station up here.

Kevin

VK;
Welcome to the forum.
Any leaning tree has stress, compression wood on the leaning side and tension wood on the back side.
The stress is caused from all the weight of the tree being off center.
If you make your notch and start in with your back cut the tree will split out and cause a barberchair which ruins the wood and could bring your life to an abrupt end.
That's the reason for bore cutting the tree after placing the notch and removing most of the wood on the inside prior to pulling out the bar and cutting the narrow strap of wood at the rear which is holding the tree and keeping it from falling.

Stephen_Wiley

Did a little more taxonomy study

Dirr, records Thuja occidentalis as:  Eastern Arbovitae, American Arbovitae, White Cedar and Northern Arbovitae.

So any combination of the above common names could be accepted as describing the species.

Other nomenclature such as symbols depicting, elevation, climate, soil characteristics and other influences may be found in forest nursery stock or forest reports. Showing differences in growing mediums of these plants and the growth changes resulting or difficulty in working with the wood.

So Kevin,.........Eastern White Cedar is most likely the same as Northern White Cedar.


" If I were two faced, do you think I would be wearing this one?"   Abe Lincoln

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