How do you approach sawing logs?

[Bibbyman]

We've talked about this before - most likely. But we've got a lot of new members and a few that are just getting started sawing.  So maybe it would be of value to talk about sawing methods.  

I'll start with how I approach sawing plain ol' construction lumber -  but take into consideration that my experience is with band mills.  I've been around classic circle mills.  I know nothing about swingers.

In the beginning, I was real attentive on how I placed the log in the mill.  I measured, re-measured, adjusted, measured,  turned,  measured,  made  toe adjustment, re-measured. ... well, you get the idea.  

One of the first customs sawing jobs was for my brother-in-law.  We came back about 6 months later to saw some more logs for him.  After the first couple of logs,  he remarked at how much faster I was sawing.  I explained that the first time I sawed for him,  I'd only sawn a dozen or so logs for myself and since then,  I'd done quite a bit of sawing.

I had made a couple of major changes to how I approached things.  

First,  I stopped using the tape measure to level logs (unless it was super critical). Instead,  I trusted my eye to level the log.  

Second,  I had experienced sawing enough log shapes and conditions to shorten my "study time".  

Third, I accepted the idea that a log has four faces and most of the time it didn't mater what face you opened first.  On a manual mill,  this cut down on the effort and time to roll the log to the "preferred" face to open.

Forth,  I stopped referencing the middle of the log to make my opening face.  Instead,  I get a good first face wherever it needs to be.  Then turn 90 to the second and make a good face.  The third and forth faces are then calculated to where everything comes out even - even if the resulting face is a little thin or a little too deep.

After making the first face cut,  I'll take at least one flitch and maybe more - depending on how thick they are and how much stress I see while sawing them. (You can note stress by watching the slab or flitch "rise" or "bend" or "squirm" as it's being sawn.  If it just lie flat, then there is little stress in the log.)  This gives me a big flat face to put against the back support - making it easier to square the cant.

After the log has had all four faces worked on,  I like to take two opposing side down to the target width of the lumber I want to make. - i.e. 6", 8", 10", ect., with the heart centered.  Then I turn the cant 90 degrees and start taking off the boards.  

Sawing a log on our Wood-Mizer LT40HD.

We now do most of our edging on our edger.  But we still edge larger and long stuff on the mill.  It's just easier than lugging it to the edger.  We generally do this before we completely saw the cant into lumber.  When the cant has been whittled down to shorter than the narrowest board we expect to edge,  we pace the flitches against it (one or more at a time) to edge.  We find it makes it much easier to hold the flitches up (sometimes they are a bit floppy) and to keep them square.  Once the edging is done,  we continue to saw the rest of the cant.

How do you approach sawing logs?  Comments?

[biziedizie]

Bibbyman
  What are you exactly looking for in your first cut and how important is it to you?

  I find that the first cut is made by how well the log sits on the mill. I find that doing it this way I end up with less waste.
 
  I think that even if I had a toe board package I would still do it this way as I'm comfy doing it this way.

     Steve

[Ed_K]

 Bibbyman, Thanks for starting this thread again. I will be reading everytime I can get on here, to see what new comes up. As for toe boards, can you explain why and which type of logs will benefit from this type of sawing.
Ed K

[Furby]

Would it be which logs? Or more, the type of boards you wish to obtain from a given log?

[dail_h]

   Get it on the carriage or mill so it rests solid,then make adjustments for taper.If its a crooked log,I like to saw with the crook flat(on a bandmill),I can get more usable lumber that way,just cut shorts,and cut the crook out if its my log.

[Bibbyman]

Here is a "primer" on placing a log on the mill and the use of toe boards to maximize the yield or value (maybe not the same thing) of a log.  It explains "full taper" and "split taper" sawing and how to deal with logs with "sweep".

Placing log on mill to deal with taper and crook      



The "toe board" is that black roller under the end of the log that is lifting it from the bed.  This log has crook and has a bump on the other end.  The toe board in this case is centering the log for better yield.


Here is a closer view of the toe board.  It's adjusted by a hydraulic cylinder and is also a roller that can be used to move the log back and forth or unload a large beam.

[WoodChucker]

Bibbyman, this is like saw milling 101 for me, thanks for all the great info and keep up the good work... I truly appreciate all the help I get from you and all the other members here. I read all the post everyday and always learn something new from you guys. I'm a long long ways from being anywhere near as good as all of you, but I'm a little better then I was yesterday and twice as good as I was the day before.  ;D  So thanks again everyone!

R.T.
  

[Bro. Noble]

Some of the things I look for when making the first cut on a grade log are:

If it's got sweep,  I want to saw the hump first.

if it has knots I will try to get them turned at 1-2  or 10-11 o'clock so they will edge off the board rather than being streight up.  You have to look at all four faces to see where the knots will be when you turn the log.

If the first face is clear,  I'll cut till I run into defects------if it's not the best face,  I'll slab or maybe saw light and then turn.

I don't have a debarker,  so I try to saw into a clean part of the log first--------it doesn't dull the blade nearly as bad exiting the log through grit as it does entering.

If the log is clear and has a lot of taper or clear with a defective heart,  I full taper saw-----otherwise I center the pith.

If I'm cutting pine, I center the pith

If I'm cutting junk that will go into pallet stock,  I put the DanG thing on  the saw and cut it the fastest way I can. ;)

Noble

[Ed_K]

 I have a red oak that I cut on a driveway opening, it was a bad leaner into the main road. When I got it down, we cut three 8'6" logs to reduce the curve. THe butt log split, with a wide y patern. How should this be placed and milled? I'm running a small manuel mill. I'm going to have to build one of those toe boards. Looks easier than useing a floor jack.
 Seems all the trees I cut that are on edges, split or crack soon after coming down. Built in stress?
 Ed K

[Fla._Deadheader]

Try this. Just before rolling the log onto the bunks, try to guess how much wedge it will take to level it, and place a piece of 1X or 2X on the bunk where the log can be rolled up onto the piece. When you need to turn the log, the shim will spit out from under the log and it will lay flat on the binks. No need to get the log "Perfectly" level. Close is good enough for most logs. I used to have a 1x that was doubled on one end, and would stand it up either 1" or 2" thick, between the log and headblocks on my Corley Circle mill. Never had "knee kick-outs" on that mill.

[Bibbyman]

We ran for years without hydraulic toe boards.   I'd just used something to lever the end of the log up and Mary put a spacer under it.  Mary and I worked out a code of one finger for 1', two fingers for 2" and so on.  For a long time we had a chunk of board about a foot long that was  1" one way and 2" the other.  I would just hold my hand out vertical for 2" and horizontal for 1".  Sometimes we'd need more and have to hunt something else down.  Right now we are doing a lot of "manual" toe adjusting as we are sawing a lot of short walnut logs that are too short to reach the hydraulic toebards.

If you are cracking a lot of leaners,  there are ways of falling a leaner that will greatly reduce the chance of cracking it up or getting yourself killed.  I don't want to go into detail here,  maybe you should bring it up in Forestry and Logging.

As for a "Y" split,  I'd about have to see it and judge the faces.  I think I'd look for the best face and try to get the crack that is closest to it at 45 degrees to the crack and start there.  If a log has crack across the face,  as Noble said,  place the crack at 1-2, 10-11 o'clock just like a knot.

[ARKANSAWYER]

    When I first spy the prey I hunkerd down and approach with the sun at my back.  One must be careful not to let your shadow give your position away.  Wind direction is another consideration depending on species during the stalk.  There is a crucial decision that must be made at this point.  Is this a trophy worthy of your tag or are you just filling the freezer?  If it is just freezer filler then just cut loose and have at it and let the chips fall where they may.  Now if it is a trophy the first shot is most important and carful consideration must be given to the task at hand.  There is coin at stake here  and full taper must be taken into account.  But then there is always next season  if you live long enough to enjoy it. :D
ARKANSAWYER
P.S.  It depends on the moon as well.

[Fla._Deadheader]

Arky, ya got the boys over the fence pretty worked up with yer "mooning". :D :D :D
  I was gonna add the Bacon thing, but, thought, naahhhhhh. ;D Them fellers got no imagination and the open mind has a padlock on it. ;) ;)

[woodmills1]

lets see now. I was gonna harvest some red oak but the moon won't go full till July 13 or so.  I gues I will just stay in and chant some incantation or maybe decant some libation.        :D :D

[Tom]

If the "tree" moon and the "fishing" moon are in direct opposition to one another we're in "fat city". :D

[kentuckyboy]

       Thanks for the info guys. It really helps us new guys getting started. I find most of my time is spent looking, measuring, turning, thinking, trying to get it right when opening up a log. But I'm getting better and a little faster everyday.  Using the forum members experience is a very big help.
        

[Bro. Noble]

Well,  I don't know anything about signs or the moon stages but It sure seems like it would be dangerous brush-hogging in the dark of the moon. :

Noble

[Ed_K]

Lets try the pict.

 I hope this is visable, this log is what I asked about lining up for sawing. Its only 16" on the tip 8' 6", but I think I can some good lumber from it.
What do you all think? As for the position to start. I have some other pict, there's 3 logs total from this leaner. It didn't split coming down, I feel the cracks where stress.
 Ed K

[Tom]

There are so many variables that you can be confronted with when you open a log that it's difficult to tell someone "how" to do it.  Most of the suggestions will be just that and will depend on what you plan to get from the log.

Here is one option that shows a way to handle each of the three sections of a three-way heart-check.  A lot depends on size, species, damage, and the amount of time you want to dedicate.  It looks like one side (4 oclock in your picture) might have a felling crack.  that might ruin that section of log.  If it is just where the saw-cut didn't meet in bucking then it's OK of course.

[Ron Wenrich]

I see cracks like that in oak quite a bit.  Usually they don't run that far.  

Every once in a while I get a log that is split.  It happens more in the winter when the ground is frozen.  You just try to center it so the split is at the 10 o'clock position and keep the split on the edge of the board.

That little bit of a crack should dress out of the board with some trimming.  There will be quite a bit of good lumber in the log.  

Where the defect might develop is when the lumber dries.  The crack may get deeper, especially if not stickered right.

[ARKANSAWYER]

  Take Tom's drawing and turn it 180 degrees and make your opening cut with it laying flat on the deck.  That way you get any taper out on the bad face and when you roll the good face up you will get the best boards.  Since you endsealed the log I would try to keep the stickers close to the end of the boards to slow drying to keep the checks from running.    
   Bushhogging in the dark of the moon is more fun, cooler, and keeps you conditioned for coon hunting and frog gigging.
ARKANSAWYER

[Ed_K]

 Thanks, I'll post pict's when it gets on the mil. And if you bushhog by the dark of the moon, the SKEETERS will carry y'all away ;D.
 Ed K

[Jason_WI]

Here is a bigun' I sawed last week for my 4th grade teacher. It was 33" at the butt and 22" at 12'. The top of this white pine snapped off on his property and it was too good to let the bugs eat it up. He sawed it down with a 16" Poulan






I sawed it into 2" thick slabs for table tops and such.  

How come my pictures always look crappy at 15K Arrrrrgh!!

I'm using Photoshop Elements and saving it as a web image. I adjust the quality till it looks crappy which is right at 14k or so. A 20k or 25k image would be a dream.....

I guess I'll upload em to my photo album online so ya don't have to stare at a few fuzzy pixels... Can't we get past the 15k limit???  Your not using 10 Mb MFM hard drives are you Jeff??? I've got a spare 20 Mb hard card if ya want it ;D ;D Plugs right into the ISA slot on a 286 ;D ;D

Jason

[ARKANSAWYER]

Jason
  Take your picture size down to 4 inches by what ever and keep your pixels the same and the kb's should get your photo in clearer and will still look the same size on the post.  I had the same problem for some time.  Keep your dpi at 72 to 100 and they should come in clear.  This photo was 978 kb at 4x6 but at 3x4  comes in clear and will post.
  Like I said it will keep you in shape for frog gigging.  Worst skeeters I have ever seen were in Alaska and I never did find any frogs.
ARKANSAWYER

[kentuckyboy]

     ARKANSAWYER, That's an interesting looking building in the picture. I have to ask What is it?

[ARKANSAWYER]

  It is a barn about 30 miles from here that a Lady from up North bought on 80 acres of land and is restoreing to live in it.  I did not get the job as another man underbid me and could start the job sooner.  He is still not done and has had to call me in several times to bail him out and have me cut lumber for it since it was built with sawmill oak and seems to have been built about 1930.  The lady who owns it is not pleased with the work that he has done and since I have had to come to teach them how to repair a "balloon" frame and use a water level it has cost her more coin.  Next vist to the area I will try to get an after photo as she was here at the mill Monday to get some more lumber ordered which I have to plane this morning so they can finish up.
ARKANSAWYER

[Jeff]

Here is a thread to answer the picture size question.

https://forestryforum.com/cgi-bin/board/YaBB.pl?board=changes;action=display;num=1032640710