Arch vs Winch???

shinnlinger · February 20, 2011, 09:08:03 PM

Been hankering to build something, but should it be an arch or a Farmi style winch? I like being able to winch logs to the trail and the maneuverability of a 3 pt winch, but how much cleaner do logs stay with an arch?

Arches seem like a good idea for an ATV, but my tractor ain't huge either (34 horse) It does seem to skid tree length 20+" pines OK and thats about as big as I need to go.

Whatya folks think?

Dave

treefarmer87 · February 20, 2011, 09:10:42 PM

a arch helps a lot, it keep the logs cleaner and gets the load off the ground

bill m · February 20, 2011, 09:36:04 PM

A winch would be my first choice. There will be times ( a lot more than you think ) that you can not get an arch to the tree. Also it's not very easy to bunch stems with an arch.

Magicman · February 20, 2011, 10:04:53 PM

Don't loose the "hanker" after you build the first one. Build one, and then build the other. Admittedly, I have no arch and skid everything, but heck, that's why wheels were invented. Stuff rolls easier than it slides.

captain_crunch · February 21, 2011, 12:37:02 AM

How about an arch with a winch ??? ??? You could have a bit more lift with arch and it would be between you and broke cable if it hapened and you could then transport log. If you need winch to yard them they are gonna be dirty any way

thecfarm · February 21, 2011, 06:50:04 AM

I can see a use for both.I have a winch.I suppose a arch would be better,for clean logs,if time money is not a factor.Maybe a power washer to clean the logs and build a winch would do it? I winch alot to me,because I can not get to the tree due to rough ground or other trees or snow.Maybe winch them out to the trails than get the arch.

Banjo picker · February 21, 2011, 07:54:37 AM

Build em both...put a reciever on the back of the winch...hook the arch to it and then when you are ready to use the arch let the winch lift the log for you....I got one in the works like that...Tim

g_man · February 22, 2011, 06:32:09 AM

Nothing at all wrong with building both. But if I had to pick one it would be the winch hands down. More functional, more productive, simpler to use, not terrain dependant, and you dont have to jig it around it tight spots. If you want to keep your logs cleaner make yourself a nice skidding cone to go with the winch. Just my .02

shinnlinger · February 23, 2011, 06:00:30 PM

Ok, winch wins, but I think I will cut down a trailer to either parbuckle or mousetrap load with the winch also. I will be able to carry more with the trailer and it will keep the logs cleaner. I also think a trailer will be easier to rig up than building an arch from scrap.

My newest dilemma is I went to my local used farm equipment guy to inquire about PTO winches and he has an old Farmi (w/out blade) that he wants $1100 for. When one considers that it is already to go with chokers and safety features built in, that isn't too bad a deal. HMMMMM....

Hilltop366 · February 23, 2011, 06:39:45 PM

Does the winch have legs? We never used the blade part on ours, the winch was a bit heavy for the tractor so leaving the blade off helped, the legs were shaped so you could pick up the log while pushing it on a pile. Price doesn't sound bad if it was here and works good.

I guess you could build the trailer to satisfy your hankering.

John Mc · February 23, 2011, 06:46:24 PM

I looked for years for a used Farmi 351 in my area, but never found one. Found one too large for my tractor that was severely mangled, and another so old you couldn't get parts for it anymore.

If it's in working order, and you can get parts, that price would be a good deal in my neck of the woods.

simonmeridew · February 23, 2011, 10:00:56 PM

I got my Farmi winch 5 years ago with my new Kubota after working with my Ford 8N for firewood/sawlogs for 25+ years on my hilly Vermont woodlot. The first thing I noticed was how much SAFER the winch was compared to having to back down to every sawlog and beech tree I wanted to skid out. Combine that with the convenience of using a snatch block to pull a log in a different direction before you skid it out(like when you fell the tree perfectly but the butt is stuck directly behind the stump) and you feel the first log you pull out pays for the winch with less emotional and physical aggravation. The winches are described as "bulletproof"and sure enough they're troublefree. I started out 35 years ago lugging out firewood one piece at a time by hand, so I've tried every way you can do it.
simonmeridew

Jerry · February 23, 2011, 10:23:03 PM

I built an arch to pull behind my 1ton pickup and also put a 10,000lb winch in the back of my truck. I have a 5th wheel hookup in my truck made a setup to mount it with the same pins as the 5th wheel. I have picked up and hauled a red oak log that was 36" dia. and 20ft long. The only problem with my setup is one log at a time. I only cut and haul for myself so it doesn't matter. I would also say that an arch would save a lot on your saw when sawing. I like having both just me.

RSteiner · February 25, 2011, 07:10:20 AM

I have both.

The Farmi winch is getting close to 30 years old and I built the acrh about 25 years ago.
I added a hitch to the winch so I can pull a trailer or the arch. That way the winch can stay on the tractor most of the time and I can use either trailer or arch whenever necessary.

I think you will find you will use the winch for more than pulling logs.

Randy

g_man · February 25, 2011, 03:34:26 PM

Quote from: RSteiner on February 25, 2011, 07:10:20 AM

I think you will find you will use the winch for more than pulling logs.

Randy

I find this to be very true. The main alternate use for me are recueing the tractor when it is mired in snow or mud and pulling vehicles out of the snow bank. But it is good for any thing where you want to apply strong controlled pressure or force and then hold it.

Holmes · February 25, 2011, 04:08:17 PM

Shinnlinger did you buy the Farmi? If you did not buy anything yet I just saw a couple of pto winches on craigs list 1 in Gardner Ma. reconditioned for $400 another bigger 1 for $750 maybe R.I. I would buy the farmi its ready to go. Holmes

shinnlinger · February 25, 2011, 07:13:17 PM

Thanks, I saw that one in Gardner and it seems like a good buy. Today I messed around with an old 8k warn w/fairlead that is mounted on a 2' receiver tube that I got from Ironwood. While I think a PTO winch is a better choice for what I want to do, I think this electric unit might be "good enough" for what I need to do and I already own it and $ is tight. By simply welding a 2"receiver on my back blade and strapping a cage to my ROPS I just might be able to get it done.

In the meantime, the snow will melt around my scrap pile and that Farmi and I can mull over my PTO options.

Perhaps some of you have opinions on how an old 8k warn will hold up in this environment. I will try to drive the tractor as close to the tree as possible and I will add an extra battery, but am I just dooming that old warn to a fiery death?

John Mc · February 26, 2011, 09:20:32 AM

Duty cycle and speed are the main shortcomings of most electric winches. I don't know what the duty cycle is on your Warn winch, but you'll probably need to allow for some cool-down time between pulls, and possibly in the middle of some of your longer pulls.

If I recall, the pulling speed on a Farmi 351, or on my Uniforest 35E (similar to a 351 in specs) is around 200 FPM (depends on how full your spool is, and the tractor RPMs). Many electric winches are around 1/10 that speed or so. Of course, I'm not generally running my tractor at full PTO RPM when winching, so the difference in normal use may not be that great.

John Mc

allmosdone · February 26, 2011, 04:33:39 PM

What a coincidence, just got my skid frame together with a ramsey 8k electric winch three weeks ago. I am verry happy with it's performance. Using my thirty horse kubota, I was able to yard and skid out about Triple!!!!! the fire wood logs I would normaly be able to move in the same time. Heres why. The winch lets you pull most logs tree length to the skid trail, then you can buck it as you like, winch in the logs. hook um up and go. I was getting full turns every trip and more turns in a day by using the tractor to pull the load on the trail, not using it as a brush buster to get to the wood. Easier on the machine and safer for me!!!!! win, win. I use a 29 marine battery to run the winch. It is not connected to the feeble charging system on the kubota! Charge the battery every night, inside., then drop it in a tray I made that attaches to the loader frame beside the hood when your starting in the mourning. It will run my winch all day with frequent use and below freezing temps, no problem!! The electric winch is slow, but withe good cable from it to the battery, you can maximize its performance. You will not over load it, it has enough pull to lift your tractor clear of the ground!! Be Carful!! The frame that mine is mouted on sort of encloses the winch, this is vital as you will destroy it in short order with the log buts slamming into rear of the rig. My unit also has a high setting that holds a snatch block so its pulling from about four feet of the ground. that works pretty well. Any higher and the tractor would roll over durng a side pull (most are side pulls). Get three or four 5/16 grab hooks and pin um on the cable above the end loop, and you got slides just like a cable skidder. Four five foot chain chokers and your in business!! What I will recomend , and I will be ordering for mine is a wirless remote. These are cheap of the ramsay site, and after working one day, it was an obvious need. Hope to get some pics up soon so the world can marval at this engineering masterpiece. Till then good luck and safe winching. CRA