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New Sawdust Removal Bin

Started by YellowHammer, January 19, 2016, 11:57:35 PM

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OneWithWood

Nice upgrade on the sawdust collection  8)

I found a '69 dump that had been a beer truck in its first go round.  Run the blower exhaust through the little door in the tailgate.  I can fill the bed in a day if I am jointing/planing all day.  The bed in my truck had been hammered by hauling scrap stone from the quarries so it is scalloped and has a couple small holes.  When the sawdust is wet it can be a pain to dump.  Still better than the small wagon I started with.

Have fun and stay safe  :)
One With Wood
LT40HDG25, Woodmizer DH4000 Kiln

YellowHammer

It finally happened, my old dump truck finally gave up on me.  The brakes didn't work, the head gasket was spraying water (I'm pretty sure it's not supposed to do that), the tires were leaking, the throwout bearing on the clutch was squealing, the fuel pump was dripping gas onto the ground and it needed new windshield wipers.  :D. Other than that, it was runnng fine. 
Here's a picture I took the other evening, a little white smoke never hurt anything.  So I called a man and she's gone.




I am experimenting with a self dumping hopper for sawdust collection.  I figure it's like a dump truck, just no mechanical stuff to break down. So first thing I did was plop it on the ground and blow the sawdust in it.  With the big Timberking blower, the sawdust was blown in, then immediately blown out.  No dice.

So I remember I had an old Grizzly dust collector in the shed and went and got the centrifuge part and mounted it on a piece of plywood and tried that.  I put the whole contraption on an old flatbed trailer, and it worked OK but still had a lot of sawdust blowing out, spraying everywhere.  To much airflow from the blower.  Nice thing is that I'm using wood planks to mock things up, so I can change configuration fairly quickly.




Well, on to plan D or F or whatever.  I moved the bin to the ground, and slid the centrifuge to the other side in the bin, and covered all the open holes by moving some wood around in it.  Jammed an old tarp to into some holes, the slid one of the top boards open a little to provide a vent on the other end of the bin.  It actually started working.  I had an old bag that was open on the bottom and tied it to the top of the centrifuge, and I started capturing about 95% of the sawdust.  Eureka.  About the only stuff coming out was the very fine dust through the dust bag.





So I'll keep tweaking it, and when and if I get it like I want, I'll weld up a hinged bin top out of metal and steel plate instead of wooden planks.

I'm still not sure this is the best way, though, seems if I make a tripod and hang the centrifuge under it, the dust should just spin out and fall in to the bin.  Then I wouldn't have to unhook the hose every time I need to empty the bin. 

Or maybe I can try...., :D

Any suggestions are welcome. 



 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Magicman

Windshield wipers are cheap.   ;D   :D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Southside

YH -

Does your cyclone have an outlet on the top and a baffle inside?  I ask because I am installing one for a customer who is finishing up a pretty high end wood shop right now.  The dust collector is powered by a 15hp 3 phase motor and has a 16" main trunk so she moves a lot of air, and the cyclone is set up like I described above.  This unit is on a pedestal, the outlet being about 2' above the top of the collection bin with a large air and water deflector on the very top that looks like a giant exhaust stack from a semi.  We made a very simple removable box to go between the bottom of the cyclone and the bin top to keep the wind and such from blowing any around as this place needs to stay very clean.  The cyclone is about 7' tall itself, by the time the dust reaches the bottom of the unit it just drops into the bin as the air blows out of the exhaust stack.  I will see if I can get a photo of it for you. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

YellowHammer

Yes, outlet air goes out the top and the sawdust spins around and drops through the bottom.  Its a pretty simple design, it has a tangential inlet and it has a baffle ring or a ledge of metal that is a couple inches from the top edge to keep the dust from rising out of the top.

I'd like to see a photo of your cyclone.
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Southside

Here is the big brother to it that we based the install on. This one is about twice the size. A dumpster bin sits under the whole thing and it really does not loose anything as the dust has plenty of time to loose any speed falling through the square unit under the cyclone. 

 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

Southside

I think Jeff just recently posted something about "tangential" stuff..l.l   :D
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

YellowHammer

That's what I would like to get to, park the bin under the cyclone and empty when full.  So, is the square unit under the cyclone a necessity of would it work without it?  I wonder where I could buy a cyclone instead of having to build it
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Southside

Basically that is a chamber that gives the dust time to slow down and free fall into the collection bin rather than still have velocity to it.  On the one we are finishing up that box became about 2' tall as this blower is pushing about 1/3rd the volume of the one in the photo.  I seem to remember you saying you have a blower that is about the size of the one I have at my place - 5hp?  So it would not need a giant unit. 

I just looked at e-bay and found a number of used ones, $1,500 - $2,500 some come with the blower, motor, and all for that price.  One thing to keep in mind - with setups like this you can get material bridging in the unit so sometimes you need to put a Vibco vibrating motor on it to knock the bridges down. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.
White Oak Meadows

slider

I'm a bit late on this one Yellowhammer but i would have ditched the truck save the dump and frame. You could box the frame add a hitch and run it with your remotes from your tractor.
al glenn

ladylake

 
I think that model truck should have synchromesh  tranny but most likely shot due to past abuse, a synchromesh tranny is harder to double clutch without grinding than one without synchro's.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

Don P

A cyclone separator shouldn't need that lower box under it. I've worked in a couple of shops where we were running blowers set up like Southside's pic and had grain side dump trucks with a plywood top under just the cyclone. We had a canvas tube from the bottom of the cyclone down through a hole in the lid of the truck. From Dave Gingery's "How to Design and Build Centrifugal Fans for the Home Shop" he also shows how to build a cyclone. There are some critical dimensions he mentions. The main body of the cyclone should be 4x the inlet dia, The top outlet is 2x the inlet. The lower cone section is as tall as the main body diameter. The rectangular tangent inlet is the same cross sectional area as the inlet pipe. The lower outlet dia is not critical but needs to be large enough to avoid bridging. There is nothing inside, the ones I've been around are hollow. The dust spins around the outside, loses velocity and drops out the bottom into the dump, the clean air at reduced speed and pressure goes out the top.

YellowHammer

Quote from: slider on February 11, 2018, 01:00:21 PM
I'm a bit late on this one Yellowhammer but i would have ditched the truck save the dump and frame. You could box the frame add a hitch and run it with your remotes from your tractor.
I didn't think of that, but I got an offer I couldn't refuse on the truck.  The deal was that if the engine was running and it was generally in one piece, they would actually pay me money for it.   :D.

If it wasn't running, or in several pieces (the guy noticed the frame had a wee bit of a crack in it, where someone else's decades old poorly welded splice plate had broken loose and was causing a little camel back sag) I would have to pay them money to haul it off.  :D

So to quote what Martha told the guy, "Deal!"
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

YellowHammer

Don P, good info.  I sure would like to go to a setup where I'm not spraying or leaking sawdust in the grand.  The dump truck worked a lot better than the original trailer, but now, I'd like to get to a cleaner, better system. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

SlowJoeCrow

I can't believe you got rid of your dump truck because you didn't want to change the windshield wipers!! :D :D

Is your main 6" dia?  If it is, for $239, buy a Super Dust Deputy XL from Oneida and put it on the end of your pipe to make a quick set up like Southside posted.  It would be cheap and quick.  Keep it as high as possible and run a pipe down from the bottom to your bin, that will give more time and distance for the chips to slow down while hopefully most of the air will do out the top.

If you wanted a metal unit, Oneida makes and sells them as well, looks like they start around $900.

Kbeitz

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

SlowJoeCrow

K, I *think* that would be for the Super Dust Deputy, not the XL which has 6" ports.  If it is for the XL, that's a good deal. 

YellowHammer

One the Oneida website it says these must be used on intake side with a sealed catch unit.  Can they be used on the exhaust side like Southside's photo with no seal, or are the exhaust mounted units a different configuration? 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Don P

Southsides photo has the fan on the inlet side of the cyclone, the chips pass through the fan. You can mount the fan on the exhaust side of the cyclone (the intake side of the fan), up top where the large exhaust elbow is on Southside's unit, it is easier on the impeller to move clean air so you can use a lighter impeller with quieter blade geometry BUT you can push further than you can pull, in that configuration I doubt a top mounted fan would pull up to the inlet of that cyclone reliably. You need a sealed container if the fan is up top on the exhaust side, otherwise it won't know not to pull air from your dust bin. If the chips pass through the fan you need a good radial impeller that can take hits from knots, hats, cats and the occasional Johnson paste wax can.

Kbeitz

the occasional Johnson paste wax can....

There's got to be more to that story....
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Don P

  :D They will just fit inside a loose 6" flex tube. I had the can on a molder bed I had just waxed and had pulled the tube off one of the side heads to do something. The tube came down on the can and woosh, it was gone. For whatever reason I ran down the shop hearing the can bouncing above me till it hit the fan. I looked in the truck and found a beat up can, and a fan blade, bummer! Floor sweeps, although very convenient, can really pick up junk and deliver it to the fan, just something to think about.

Some fan stuff I thought about last night, volume is determined mostly by impeller width, pressure by diameter. You can play with speed if the fan is belt and pulley driven where if it is direct drive you cannot. That runs out if the basic sizes are not right though. You can tune a little more by adjusting the cutoff gap between the impeller and the scroll shaped case where the exhaust flow is directed out BUT tightening that gap mostly creates a lot more noise than improvement.

YellowHammer

Since my Timberking blower has all the dust and chips pass through it and is already mounted and plumbed, I'd need to mount the cyclone on the exhaust of the blower, right on top of my bin so the chios would fall into it. 

I'm worried about how tight I need to make the bin so the airflow from the cyclone goes up and out instead of down and into the chip bin, similar to when I just pointed the bare hose into the bin and "Whoosh" the chips were all blown out by the airflow.  When I put the Grizz cyclone segment part on the hose, I still needed to put boards over the bin to keep the air going up and chips going down.  I'm hoping the cyclone would do better.  I guess I could install a blast gate on the bottom of the cyclone to adjust the chip hole to force more of the air up the cyclone instead of down, but that might cause clogs. 
I guess I need to just buy one and play with it. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Darrel

I've seen a lot of cyclones emptying into bins and airflow out the bottom was never a huge issue, not even with planer shavings. Yes there was a little bit of airborne debris floating around, but not enough to be a big issue.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

YellowHammer

That gives me encouragement. Do you know a brand or internal configuration?
  I called Oneida and they said due to thier special internal configuration (I don't know what's so special) they said theirs would not work unless sealed. Maybe they've never tried it?

YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

SlowJoeCrow

You could put a rotary air lock from Oneida on the bottom of the cyclone, but that is a good chunk of change.

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