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Attack of the Killer Johnson Grass

Started by Left Coast Chris, June 27, 2008, 01:04:42 AM

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Left Coast Chris

Well,  since the price of hay is sky high ($15 per bale and going up) and the wife has a horse I decided to try to plant a pasture on the back 7 acres.  The  rains were so inconsistant this year we found ourselves discing, no rain, a little rain, weeds, discing, no rain, a little rain, weeds, discing and so on until we finally got a good rain prediction in mid February with a clean looking field.  Normally pastures in Northern California are planted in the Fall so grass and alfalfa will germinate but not the warm weather weed seeds. 

We ended up with LOTS of pig weed and some Johnson grass in with the rye, fescue and alfalfa.   We sprayed 2-4-d (Weedar 64) and killed most of the pig weed before the alfalfa germinated.   The Johnson grass is coming on pretty good.  The field is flood irrigated once every 2 weeks.

Any ideas on how to clean up the pasture and get rid of the Johnson grass without killing the alfalfa? :P
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

WildDog

If the Johnson grass is higher then the alphalfa you could try a wiker wiper with glysophate
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BBK

We fought Johnson Grass in the 60's it seemed like forever. The method that finally won the war was a combination of herbicides with a 2-4-d base and constant digging up the resprouts every spring. It took about 6 years to get rid of it completly.
I love Farming, Logging, Sawmilling, Fishing, and Hunting.

Norm

If they'd release the round-up ready alfalfa I could suggest it. Otherwise there is no practical solution that will actually work.

farmerdoug

Poast will kill it but it is a grass killer so it will take out the grasses you planted also. ::)
Doug
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Kcwoodbutcher

Had the same problem a few years ago. The solution was to let it get tall and then use careful application of roundup trying to avoid adjacent grass,then after die off reseed the patches. This was on a three to four acre plot. Took a couple of years but its clean now.
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

stonebroke

won't the horse eat the Johnson grass?

Stonebroke

Fla._Deadheader


Johnson Grass, under stress, puts out Prussic Acid within the plant. When cows or horses eat it, they will suffer from a lack of oxygen to the lungs-brain, and will die. I'm not familiar with Horses, but, we ALWAYS carried around a bottle of electrolyte, and a needle on a rubber tube. IF a cow went down, you had to get there quickly, and insert the needle into the paunch, and hopefully drain the entire bottle into the cow. MOST of the time, they will get back up and start eating the same stuff all over again.  ::) ::)

  As Bro. Noble so eloquently states, "Stoopid cows".

  The hay, I'm told, is just as lethal. We grew "Green Graze", Sorghum Sudan Hybrid, that had the same effect. Pastured it and fed as hay with nary a problem, but, we used a "test cow" on the grass or hay, and monitored it for 20 minutes, before turning the rest in on the feed.

 
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Larry

I'm doing the same as Kcwoodbutcher in a stand of fescue...sometimes you have to hit the same spot 3 times in a summer to get a complete kill.  I've also used Assure in alfalfa with good results...it ain't labeled for alfalfa so beware and it will kill your fescue.  Check with FSA or extension to see if they have any recommendations.

Whatever you try be prepared for a long, lengthly, and expensive battle.  If your not persistent johnson grass will whup ya. :o
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Kcwoodbutcher

Well horses  are just about as stupid as cows., they'll eat it but it's not their first choice if something else is available. I've had to tell my boarders more than once that the big pretty grass they're letting there horse graze on is toxic. From what I remember it isn't toxic until it's over a foot tall or so.
My job is to do everything nobody else felt like doing today

Left Coast Chris

Our weed book says that the acid forms when frosted or under moisture stress.  The most distressing thing is that if you mow it hopeing not to let it go to seed it will spred by the large tuber like roots.  Bad stuff.   We have killed some with glyphosphate but it leaves the dead patches.  I like KC's suggestion of swabing on glyphosphate (round-up) when it gets taller than the rest of the grass.   This is bad stuff, even discing just spreads the roots to let it multiply more.

In hind site it would have been better to kill the whole field of everything a couple of times and make sure all is dead then disc and seed.  Lessons learned.   :P ::) ::)
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

Fla._Deadheader


Could have been seed in the stuff you sowed ???
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

pigman

The easiest way to get rid of Johnson grass is to put nitrogen fertilizer on it. It is an expensive method, but it works. What happens is that the Johnson grass grows so fast that it jurks itself out of the ground, rhizomes and all. :D ( I will not guarantee this method and will not take responsbility if it does not work.)
Things turn out best for people who make the best of how things turn out.

Left Coast Chris

I never thought about the seed source......ouch.

Pigman,  what strength and how did you apply the nitrogen (amonium sulfate?)
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

Bro. Noble

The cyanide (sp) gas goes off of Johnson grass when it is chopped or dried,  so hay and silage is safe to feed.  We graze it all the time as it is hard to eliminate from bottomland pasture.  If you do get rid of it (the old time remedy was to turn hogs in on it as they love the fleshy roots) then the next time the bottoms flood,  you get a new crop from seed.  Would this be a problem with flood irrigation?  Make sure the animals aren't hungry when you turn in on it and avoid it when stressed from drouth or frost.

While it is a noxious weed in Mo.,  I thik you can still buy Johnsongrass seed in Arkansas.  It's really hard to eliminate from cropland,  but it is also hard to maintain a good stand of it for the high quality and abundant forage that it produces.  If it is cut often or grazed hard,  it declines.  Most alfalfa fields get cut every month which means 5 times in our area.  Under these conditions,  Johnsongrass will become less of a problem each year.

If it were me,  I'd use a wed wiper (for a few acres,  you could make one that will work well enough) ,  but remember that the chemical concentration must be a lot stronger than if you were spraying.  After the first year,  you could spot spray.  Don't try to reseed or spot seed alfalfa without growing something else for a year of two,  as alfalfa procuces a toxin that keeps it's own seed from germinating.
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Left Coast Chris

We seeded with horse pasture mix grasses 75% and Alfalfa 25% of the seed by weight.  Not sure what will end up being dominant but the Alfalfa actually looks like 50% of the stand in the field.  Interesting that if I let the Alfalfa go to seed it will not thicken up due to its own toxin preventing germination.

Im also not fertilizing due to having the Johnson Grass and not wanting to encourage it.  Not sure if that is the right thing to do.  Anyone have suggestions on fertilizing? Our soil is river bottom sandy loam that is brown (not black).
Home built cantilever head, 24 HP honda mill, Case 580D, MF 135 and one Squirel Dog Jack Russel Mix -- Crickett

Norm

My advice would to be to get a soil test done. You may be deficient in some things and not others. We fertilize when we plant alfalfa but not afterward.

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