planing cedar

[xlogger]

I'm thinking about getting a jointer and planer to start planing some of my cedar boards that I saw off my mill. This is all going to be new to me. I went to look at a used jointer (with a new blade) and ran a cedar board threw it and it chipped out some near knots. Has anyone plane a ceder with the spiral head or shelix and does this help? Are they one in the same? Thinking about looking at the 18 Woodmaster planer. Just don't want to start off buying the wrong machine.

[wheelinguy]

The bigger the better, you can never have a planer that is to wide.  Also the extra size means more weight which means more stability.  I might look into other planers as I believe the woodmaster is a multipurpose machine, a dedicated planer will be easier to service and operate.  The spiral cutters are excellent, they leave a very clean surface in most cases, the big advantage is that you can rotate each tooth and use all 4 of its sides before you need to sharpen them again.  With a traditional planer that has three blades as soon as one is knicked it is essentially no good until it is sharpened.  If funding is available go for the spiral head, never heard of anyone being disappointed in them.

[WDH]

You really need the spiral head to plane cedar without tear out around the knots.  The Grizzly GO453z is a proven machine and the spiral head does an excellent job.  Take a look at it.  However, it is not suited for continuous heavy use.

[xlogger]

As of now I can only see me maybe planing about 10-15 boards at a time. Maybe like 1X6X8's. Do you think it would hold up with that? I just need something good to start with. If I need more later and I don't really think I will I'll get a bigger machine.

[Schramm]

Hey this is one I can actually help on.  Prior to getting into a new wood shop I looked into everything.  The Woodmaster 18 with the spiral head is what I have.  I bought it thinking that I would only use it as a molder but then tried the planer and really loved it.  Then I bought the spiral head and it was 10x's better.  Those guys at Woodmaster have NEVER let me down!  If you need help, they jump all over helping you.  I have found that they are a TEAM PLAYER and you ARE NOT a dollar sign to them, you are a partner.  Mark is the guy down there you want to talk to, tell him that Rob Schramm said hi and said to give you something extra.  I too love woodwork but many things I am new to and planing wood was on thing as like most I bought my wood ready to go.  The first time you a run something through the planer or run some molding you will be HOOKED.  Once you have it I would be happy to help you as well.  If you want to make the most out of your milled wood, this is the way to go.

[Fla._Deadheader]

There is an old thread on the FF, where you can back grind the straight knives just a bit, and that prevents MOST tear out and nicks.

Maybe someone more computer literate can search it up.

What it describes is, once the knives are sharpened, you take just a small amount off the front edge of the knives, so, you are almost scraping the board, while still cutting it a little.

I tried it on Spanish Cedar, and it did a good job. Spanish cedar gets a cotton like cord running amongst the growth rings, occasionally, and it never gets completely smooth, until you wear it down with a belt sander or drum sander. You might try this idea. Can't hurt much to try. Just do it as evenly as you can. I just use a metal bar of carbide dust, like a diamond knife sharpener, and wipe that across the leading edge of the knife. Only takes a few passes, if you keep the sharpener wet with water, to clear the grit.

[WDH]

The 3 HP Grizzly machine will work fine for what you are wanting to do as would the Woodmaster with the spiral head.  I believe that the Woodmaster is more machine, but the price is a good bit higher too.

[thecfarm]

So you guys are telling me the Delta I got from the big box store will not do cedar good? I've put some white pine and hemlock through it,so far. Does Ok with that stuff.

[WDH]

ERC is knotty, and it is hard to get a perfect surface with planer knives unless they are very sharp.  The sprial head cutters with the carbide inserts give a better finished surface with less chance of tear out.

That said, I have planed a whack of ERC with a lunchbox planer with knives, and somehow managed to do pretty good  .

[Tree Feller]

My 15" Grizzly planer (GO453) has knives and yes, occassionally a Cedar knot will chip out pretty badly. That said, I've planed a bunch of Cedar with it and like Danny, got a satisfactory surface on most of it.

I use ERC mostly for outdoor projects and it's the exception to my standard practice of jointing, then planing. If it's sawn fairly well, I simply run it through the planer and live with any irregularities in thickness. Butt joints with glue and screws is not exactly fine furniture and doesn't require exactness in the joinery.

[LeeB]

Taking lighter cuts will also help with the tearout. I seem to remember reading that dampening the surface lightly,  just before plaining also helps.

[xlogger]

The 15 Grizzly looks like it cost around $1700 with spiral head and the 18 Woodmaster with the spiral head is around $3100 plus shipping. Unless they have some special on now. I've heard bad things about the sanding on the woodmaster but good on the other parts. I don't have a kiln so not sure if the molding of the Woodmaster would pay off for me now. I'm thinking maybe I should go the route of each machine doing something seperate. I also want a 8" jointer and I'll get it with a spiral head also. Not sure if all this will pay off for me but I'd like to have a woodworking shop anyways. I'll probably only get one at a time not sure whick one to start with. If I found a good use one I'd get that also. But the only ones I find used are not with the spiral heads. Ricky

[xlogger]

I found a 12" woodpecker jointer for sale near me for $1500. Can really find out much on computer about it. Do any of you have any experence with one? Could I get a spiral head for it if I like it?

[WDH]

I don't know anything about that 12" jointer, but you will be well served by going with a spiral head.

[GeneWengert-WoodDoc]

When planing any species of wood, the grain of the knot itself and the grain surrounding the knot changes from (more or less) flat grain to vertical grain...that is, the fibers in most of the pice are parallel to the face of the lumber, but at the knot the fibers are at 90 degrees to the face.  So, when planing a knot, we are actually planing end grain.  Secondly, a knot is often denser than the "normal" wood.  A knot is in some cases lower in MC than the surrounding wood (especially black knots in pine, for example), so when the wood is dried, these knots are bone dry.  Further, being end grain, they dry faster than the rest of the wood, so they are lower in MC in almost ever case...low MC means more brittle when machining.

With all these differences, it is indeed difficult to plane "normal" wood and also a knot with the same feed speed, knives and knife angles, etc.  Indeed, spiral cutters do seem to do a better job and slower feeds with small cuts also do better.  Generally, 10% MC for softwoods is better than lower MCs. 

It is true that an abrasive planer will give a wonderful surface for cedar and some other species too, but the belts need to be clean and the sanding particles sharp.

[woodmills1]

As a small producer, I have run a fair amount of band sawn wood through less than high production equipment.


There are a few things to be remembered


I early on planed many thousands of feet of oak on a roybi 10 inch portable
(the delivery to dorchester mass, the payment in cash in full view of street junkies, as well as the name of the now well know national company will remain in the realm of the unspoken)
???
yes I did type that

however the grizzly 1000 grit sharpener and the many blade removals and sharpening was how that little thing did that job


I also have a 1949 Delta one horsepower combination table saw and jointer, that I put multiple thousands of linear feet of soft and hard wood through

DanG I made 7 rooms of oak T and G on a Crafstman 1/2 HP shaper


small equipment involves slow feeds, sharp blades and knives, and very strict constant attention to the operation

my belsaw, with its one knife and 2 counter balance weights always sounded like it was ready to explode


and it would at a pine knot




and I bet Gene would agree, that on a much larger level, without some form of constant attention, payed by dedicated workers and managers, even high level and way expensive machines won't do the job and still make a profit

[xlogger]

At a local wood workers store near by had a 8" jointer on sale with the sprial head. It sold for the reg. price of the jointer and they just gave me the sprial head. I have to put it together, was planing on doing it today but was told by girlfriend we where doing something else today. That's life I guess. Now to find a planer, good thing I'm not in too big of a hurry.