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This is what happens when you don't thin.

Started by Haleiwa, September 27, 2018, 04:42:23 AM

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Haleiwa

About 25 years ago, when sugar production collapsed in Hawaii, thousands of acres on Big Island w

 

 ere planted in eucalyptus trees.  The plan was to thin them for chips in five years, but the Japanese chip market fell apart, and they were left too thick.  Now they are not even worth chipping for the Chinese market.  Many of them are approaching 200 feet high and are essentially worthless.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

Dan_Shade

What is the diameter? 

I don't know anything about eucalyptus, but those sure are straight trees. 
Woodmizer LT40HDG25 / Stihl 066 alaskan
lots of dull bands and chains

There's a fine line between turning firewood into beautiful things and beautiful things into firewood.

Cedarman

Can eucalyptus be pressure treated and used for fence posts?  Either round or sawed square.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Riwaka

I see at least 12 different Eucalyptus species listed for Hawaii. 
Depends on what species they are; what the potential use or not may be.
Eucalyptus sideroxylon is one that might be near the top of a search list.
 https://www.woodsolutions.com.au/wood-species/ironbark-red

Some species of Eucalytpus have been treated cca, creosote etc. Some post users looking for naturally durable posts now even if they are untreated and don't last as long - untreated might be burnt or composted where as toxic chemically treated posts can cause problems/ expense.

tacks Y

I don't want to pith in any ones pool but the look closer to 100 feet.

petefrom bearswamp

Dont know about Hawaii but utility poles here are typically 35 45 feet length and 6 ft or so in the ground.
Using a max of 40 plus above grd I figure 65 70 ft tall max.
Looks like a lot of biomass to me.
But not knowing markets there I may be full of bull tookie
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Southside

Looks like a lot of straight and clear lumber there. Tight rings? Is the stuff tough enough for flooring?
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Wudman

The problem with the Hawaiian Islands is lack of processing facilities.  We acquired some dirt there (old sugar plantation) in a larger global acquisition, and promptly sold it due to lack of markets.  If you factor in $150 / ton freight for export, there isn't a lot of financial incentive to work in that market.

Wudman
"You may tear down statues and burn buildings but you can't kill the spirit of patriots and when they've had enough this madness will end."
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Haleiwa

These are not robusta, although I don't know which species they are.  This particular species is a coarse, open grain that is mediocre lumber at best.  It is so wet that cut logs drip water.  As posts or poles the lifespan untreated is measured in months, not years.  This is a crop intended for fuel wood, and the cost of harvesting and shipping the toothpicks is more than the market will bear.  This location is around 100 feet tall.  The tallest trees are at a different location, but these are next to the road.
I was not involved in this project, but was on the site several years ago as a consultant for a power plant that looked at them as a potential fuel source. They were way too thick back then.  I just happened to drive by them the other day and took the picture.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

mike_belben

So now all theyre good for is piling in the water to make artificial surf breaks.  Then build mana pua gentry on the site. 
Praise The Lord

kanoak

I believe these are either E. grandis or hybrid E. grandis x E urophylla. A couple of years ago they were being harvested and logs were being sent to china; I heard that they were meant for studs. There was an incredible amount of tension in the logs; ends quartered themselves in the yard. There is a new bioenergy plant that may start to use some of them for feedstock. As noted, processing facilities and freight are limiting factors, particularly when dealing with low value material.
There have been close to 60 eucalyptus species planted in the islands, some extensively. Some of my house is made up of E. robusta which was widely planted as windbreaks in wet sites a century ago. E. sideroxylon can be seen on the drier side of waimea headed to kona on the upper road, planted as windbreak and shade for cattle. 
Aloha,
Kanoa

sealark37

What is a nice boy from Plattsburgh doing in the Islands?  You are missing the best weather of the year at home!  Should you not be tuning up your snow machine?   Been there, done that.   Regards, Clark

Haleiwa

I've lived on Oahu for 20 years. This is one last play trip before we move to New York.  It's my wife's home.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

Ianab

Main problem with young eucalyptus like that is the wood is incredibly unstable from those smaller young logs. I've sawn sawn some, and it's developed every conceivable drying defect, all in the same board. Bet you didn't know a board could "cup" in both directions? Yup, into an S shape.  :D

Bigger older logs seem to be better behaved, and the exact species makes a big difference. 

Tight growth rings? Nah, try none. In the tropics they will just grow all year round, and put on a couple of inches dia every year. Even here in NZ I've cut down one for a friend that was ~10 years old, and over 20" at the stump. Not sure of the species, but the wood from that one actually behaved as it dried. ???

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nativewolf

Quote from: kanoak on September 27, 2018, 01:51:58 PM
I believe these are either E. grandis or hybrid E. grandis x E urophylla. A couple of years ago they were being harvested and logs were being sent to china; I heard that they were meant for studs. There was an incredible amount of tension in the logs; ends quartered themselves in the yard. There is a new bioenergy plant that may start to use some of them for feedstock. As noted, processing facilities and freight are limiting factors, particularly when dealing with low value material.
There have been close to 60 eucalyptus species planted in the islands, some extensively. Some of my house is made up of E. robusta which was widely planted as windbreaks in wet sites a century ago. E. sideroxylon can be seen on the drier side of waimea headed to kona on the upper road, planted as windbreak and shade for cattle.
Hey good to hear from you Kanoak!  How goes the fight against the firegods and invasive species?  E. grandis can develop into nice wood given enough time.  I don't know how it responds to thinning after suppression.  
Liking Walnut

kanoak

Aloha nativewolf, good to hear from you. Pele is taking a nap for the moment and the weather on my side is beautiful. Weed maintenance is constant and high priority at the moment as we are moving into short season and many of my targets, the giant grasses will flower and set seed quite quickly at this time of year. Not sure these plantings will be given proper management and time to turn into a more valuable resource; heard talk that the landowner is thinking of razing a significant amount and reverting the land to pasture. It is a shame that they chose this course back at the end of the sugar era.
Aloha,
Kanoa

mike_belben

Whats avg price on a gallon of milk these days?

And what exactly caused the sugar cane implosion?  The world never consumed more of it than we presently do.
Praise The Lord

longtime lurker

I dont think those are E grandis - bark looks wrong to me. I am unfamiliar with E. urophylla or the hybrid.

E grandis is mostly used here for flooring, hardwood pallets, some use in general construction... its not particularly durable if weather exposed, though fine for internal use, and the high shrinkage means its mostly used in seasoned or KD applications. Nice timber though.




E. grandis logs in the bush, and half a one hooked up to the skidder.  Anything under about 80' to the first branch I would consider short.


 

 

grandis timber is the redder sample on the left,  I'd call that about middle of its colour range. It's reasonably workable so long as care is taken in drying. 
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Haleiwa

Quote from: mike_belben on September 28, 2018, 07:19:15 AM
Whats avg price on a gallon of milk these days?

And what exactly caused the sugar cane implosion?  The world never consumed more of it than we presently do.
Hawaii sugar rode the subsidy train for decades.  When fear of Fidel Castro lost its ability to scare people, the train came to a screeching halt.  
Milk on Oahu is between 4.50 and 5.00 at Costco.  Considerably higher elsewhere.  Way higher on the outer islands.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

mike_belben

Makes sense.  Im pretty sure cuba is number 1 sugar state, and we are its primary target buyer.
Praise The Lord

Claybraker

Quote from: Haleiwa on September 28, 2018, 01:39:51 PM
Quote from: mike_belben on September 28, 2018, 07:19:15 AM
Whats avg price on a gallon of milk these days?

And what exactly caused the sugar cane implosion?  The world never consumed more of it than we presently do.
Hawaii sugar rode the subsidy train for decades.  When fear of Fidel Castro lost its ability to scare people, the train came to a screeching halt.  
Milk on Oahu is between 4.50 and 5.00 at Costco.  Considerably higher elsewhere.  Way higher on the outer islands. 
Way back in the mid 1700's Britain imposed tariffs on sugar and molasses imported to the colonies.  The Sugar Act of 1764 which protected wealthy British plantation owners in the West Indies was one of the irritants that led to the rebellion a few years later. 

Ianab

Dairy cows don't do well in the islands. We holiday in the Cook Islands, and basically you just don't buy milk like we normally do. Fresh has to be air freighted 4 hours from NZ, so its mostly UHT cartoned. But then you can just pick up coconuts off the ground if you are thirsty, and know how to open one.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Riwaka

To clear the eucs in hawaii put a $1 levy/ passenger on the tourists to buy a big feller buncher or two and  plant back into native vegetation.

E saligna can be turned into fibreboard but you would need a fair sized area and the electricity to run a mdf plant. 
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf2001/krzys01a.pdf

Hawaii sugar - high costs versus sugar growing in other places with cheaper labour (slave labour)

Final harvest signals end of era for Hawaii's sugar industry - YouTube

Aussies have tropical cows

https://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/agribusiness/dairy/herd-17-bred-for-a-tropical-climate/news-story/baf9e7512ca01d57d69da4fa37f4a9bd





kanoak

Aloha, 
longtime I have not done any proper identification on the species or cut any wood; just passing along what I have read on their plantings. Very cool and informative to see the wood and stand pictures. As stated by the op these stands have been neglected and I don't think there are many trees >12" dbh at this point but it would be great if they were managed as a resource instead of a problem. One thing I consistently hear about is the lack of quality drying. Local woodworkers don't like to work with local wood because of defect and poor consistency of product. 
Ranching is still big on the island; mostly for tax purposes at this point. I don't drink milk here; it is pasteurized, shipped, and then re-pasteurized. Besides paying a premium there is a very short time before it is the nastiest thing in the fridge. We used to have a multitude of independent dairies as well as butcher shops every couple of miles along the main roads. There is one dairy now and they are getting hammered for effluent discharge and growing gmo silage politically. Ranching did a number on the native flora, but created a vibrant culture that still hangs on. 
Other nails in the coffin of Hawaiian sugar were the rise of the sugar beet and the cost of labor.
Aloha,
Kanoa

SwampDonkey

One of the reasons I liked the old Hawaii 5-O was the shots of the natural landscape and the sugar plantation scenes. I don't watch the remake of the show at all.

An interesting part of the world. Who hasn't dreamed of going there? I don't think I'll make it, but I guess I'll make do on my own piece of paradise. :)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

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